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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 5080096" data-attributes="member: 4937">As long as we are talking gun rules, I can help. I agree that the basic MSRD rules are inadequate and often poorly thought out.  Most gun rules I've seen are terrible.  The best I've seen was from Ken Hood, and I don't think it was published.  The basic idea is that a firearm has four basic qualities, two of which are not generally shared with primitive missile weapons.1) Damage: Self explanatory hopefully, except that guns get 19-20/x3 criticals by default and otherwise on this count roughly match other missile weapons like longbows and crossbows (at least for small values of 'gun').2) Accuracy: Compared to ballistic weapons, firearms are easier to use and aim because of their high velocity and comparitively flat path of flight.  So firearms get a bonus to hit.  For a primitive firearm like a matchlock or wheellock, this bonus is small (+0 or +1).  For a modern longarm, this bonus can be quite high (+3 or higher).3) Penetration: Compared to ballistic weapons, firearms more easily penetrate armor.  They don't ignore armor, but it takes a considerable amount to provide useful protection.  Each firearm gets a a penetration rating which is the amount you subtract from the target's armor bonus (minimum 0, obviously).  Again, for primitive smoothbore weapons, this bonus is quite low.  For a modern .50 caliber weapon, the bonus is quite high (like +8 I think).  Ken also had rules for semiautomatic and automatic fire.The long and short of it, is that under his rules, a primitive musket was barely better (and maybe not even better) than a good crossbow or expertly wielded longbow.  On the other hand, a low level fighter with modern military combat gear adds a huge amount to his effective CR and easily outclasses primitive weaponry.  That is how I think it should be based on the historical record.  Firearms didn't immediately obselete ancient weaponry or obselete charging up with melee weapons, but they certainly did eventually.I can easily see D&D parties being threatened by things 8 CR or more below them if you give them assault rifles, sniper rifles, RPG's, grenades, etc.  You could easily have 1 HD creatures with effectively +12 to hit, area of effect attacks, threatening massive damage on a lucky critical hit, and the ability to outrange you while fighting from 90% cover.</blockquote>

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