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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 5376939" data-attributes="member: 87792">Ah. The Grand Master of Flowers certainly was. But a fifth level monk would be doing 1d6 damage per attack, have 6d4 hit points (average: 15 - the rogue caught up with his hit points at 3rd level), the AC of someone wearing Chainmail, I think, and be out-rogued by the rogue (naturally). All that on what I recall was a steep experience point chart. That's not my definition of badass - naughty donkey would be closer. ETA: And let's look at the level 1 Monk in 1e.  Slightly fewer hit points than the fighter (2d4 vs 1d10).  An AC that barely beats the wizard.  (Might even tie with it).  An attack that ... sucks.  From memory it's weaker than the wizard's dagger.  And no spell for that moment of glory.  Other than 1.5 hit points, the rogue is better all round.</blockquote>