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<blockquote data-quote="Wyrmshadows" data-source="post: 4420015" data-attributes="member: 56166">Here! Here! &nbsp;I agree in theory with the OP 110% but it cannot happen. D&amp;D is marketed to kids, written for kids, and presented in an adolescent manner for one reason.....$$$$$&nbsp;This is not a slight against it, it is a reality. If core WoTC D&amp;D did otherwise it would die. D&amp;D as written, quality mature themed settings notwithstanding, is fantasy superheroes and a mishmash of pop-fantasy odds and ends that isn't IMO meant to be taken serious...not that you can't play it as a more adult game, many including myself certianly do.&nbsp;I love grown-up games and would only DM an immature game if I were DMing for my 10yr old son and his friends. Lighthearted, bloody, cinematic, nonsensical adventures in nonsensical holes in the ground is how I learned the game and that kind of classic D&amp;Dness is perfectly suited to kids and tweens...ie those that first pick up the game.&nbsp;The adult slack has to be picked up, not be the core game, but by innovative settings that gear the game to older (18+yr old) gamers where the types of adventures and situations are themed to speak to folks who have matured enough to deal with mature themes.&nbsp;In 3.5e Midnight and Scarred Lands come to mind as settings that didn't shrink from creating a believable environment for mature gamers who can handle the reality of the evil their characters are up against or the consequences of war, slavery, decadence, violence, and absolute evil in the sense of demons, devils and such creatures.&nbsp;IMO D&amp;D is written as a G.I. Joe cartoon...evil has no real consequences and the superhero like good-guys always prevail in the end....blah, blah, blah. I prefer my games to be like Band of Brothers or Saving Private Ryan where the threat is real, the challenges can be extreme but when you get through it you feel like heroes...because you are.&nbsp;The setting I am writing up is definately adult, not unrelentingly dark and foreboding, but mature. Its going to be up to setting designers to fill in the adult gaps in what is basically, as written, a kids game.&nbsp;&nbsp;Wyrmshadows</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Wyrmshadows, post: 4420015, member: 56166"] Here! Here! I agree in theory with the OP 110% but it cannot happen. D&D is marketed to kids, written for kids, and presented in an adolescent manner for one reason.....$$$$$ This is not a slight against it, it is a reality. If core WoTC D&D did otherwise it would die. D&D as written, quality mature themed settings notwithstanding, is fantasy superheroes and a mishmash of pop-fantasy odds and ends that isn't IMO meant to be taken serious...not that you can't play it as a more adult game, many including myself certianly do. I love grown-up games and would only DM an immature game if I were DMing for my 10yr old son and his friends. Lighthearted, bloody, cinematic, nonsensical adventures in nonsensical holes in the ground is how I learned the game and that kind of classic D&Dness is perfectly suited to kids and tweens...ie those that first pick up the game. The adult slack has to be picked up, not be the core game, but by innovative settings that gear the game to older (18+yr old) gamers where the types of adventures and situations are themed to speak to folks who have matured enough to deal with mature themes. In 3.5e Midnight and Scarred Lands come to mind as settings that didn't shrink from creating a believable environment for mature gamers who can handle the reality of the evil their characters are up against or the consequences of war, slavery, decadence, violence, and absolute evil in the sense of demons, devils and such creatures. IMO D&D is written as a G.I. Joe cartoon...evil has no real consequences and the superhero like good-guys always prevail in the end....blah, blah, blah. I prefer my games to be like Band of Brothers or Saving Private Ryan where the threat is real, the challenges can be extreme but when you get through it you feel like heroes...because you are. The setting I am writing up is definately adult, not unrelentingly dark and foreboding, but mature. Its going to be up to setting designers to fill in the adult gaps in what is basically, as written, a kids game. Wyrmshadows [/QUOTE]

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