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<blockquote data-quote="Crazy Jerome" data-source="post: 5899657" data-attributes="member: 54877">Sure, but note that I said &quot;single&quot; roll. I didn't say this, but it is really that it is a single roll with a binary result, pass or fail. This is different than, say, combat. Not that combat is pure on this tack, either (nor should it be), but it has enough to work with that it doesn't matter that much if a sword adds a +1 to the d20 roll to hit.&nbsp;Among other problems, the single roll tends to front-load all the decision points, and the decisions are all &quot;use this thing to boost my roll&quot;. I'm not saying that everything needs to be ultra-complicated. &quot;Shinny up that short tree and look around&quot; can stay a simple check (or even no check, since it is unlikely to fail). &nbsp;Take something like a climbing kit as an easy example of the problem. Spend some money, get +2 to your climbing roll. All you've done is complicate the DCs and probabilities of climb checks a bit in return for a gold sink. Well, ok, you've also put in the option for a character to be without the kit at a bad moment, which is something, but not much.&nbsp;Just making something up here, but how about if instead a climbing kit changed the rules for climbing somewhat, but when you fail, it gets partially frayed and/or used up? Now, you don't use it all the time, but you certainly will on risky climbs. Now your mage can use that mending spell to fix the kit in a bad moment. When you are halfway up the mountain, and a bad roll leads to you dropping key pieces of the kit, you need to decide whether to send someone down for it, or press forward.&nbsp;Then tying that back into Dausuul's point, you now have two things climb related feats can address--the nature of the skill roll and how equipment performs. Maybe a crafty character has a feat that lets them improvise ad hoc climbing kits out of spare ropes and dull daggers.&nbsp;That's off the cuff, and probably not that interesting. If they put a little time into it, I'm fairly certain the designers could stake out a few parts that would be more useful.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Crazy Jerome, post: 5899657, member: 54877"] Sure, but note that I said "single" roll. I didn't say this, but it is really that it is a single roll with a binary result, pass or fail. This is different than, say, combat. Not that combat is pure on this tack, either (nor should it be), but it has enough to work with that it doesn't matter that much if a sword adds a +1 to the d20 roll to hit. Among other problems, the single roll tends to front-load all the decision points, and the decisions are all "use this thing to boost my roll". I'm not saying that everything needs to be ultra-complicated. "Shinny up that short tree and look around" can stay a simple check (or even no check, since it is unlikely to fail). Take something like a climbing kit as an easy example of the problem. Spend some money, get +2 to your climbing roll. All you've done is complicate the DCs and probabilities of climb checks a bit in return for a gold sink. Well, ok, you've also put in the option for a character to be without the kit at a bad moment, which is something, but not much. Just making something up here, but how about if instead a climbing kit changed the rules for climbing somewhat, but when you fail, it gets partially frayed and/or used up? Now, you don't use it all the time, but you certainly will on risky climbs. Now your mage can use that mending spell to fix the kit in a bad moment. When you are halfway up the mountain, and a bad roll leads to you dropping key pieces of the kit, you need to decide whether to send someone down for it, or press forward. Then tying that back into Dausuul's point, you now have two things climb related feats can address--the nature of the skill roll and how equipment performs. Maybe a crafty character has a feat that lets them improvise ad hoc climbing kits out of spare ropes and dull daggers. That's off the cuff, and probably not that interesting. If they put a little time into it, I'm fairly certain the designers could stake out a few parts that would be more useful. [/QUOTE]

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