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<blockquote data-quote="eamon" data-source="post: 5900156" data-attributes="member: 51942">So let's go with this idea and see where it leads:<ol>
<li data-xf-list-type="ol">We're going to have several different package deals.&nbsp; That's going to lead to a huge feat explosion for no good reason.&nbsp; This entirely defeats the purpose: simplicity!</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ol">WotC has not traditionally done a great job of making such pre-built selections.&nbsp; Likely it will be much weaker that a manually built selection, which kind of defeats the purpose of having a sufficiently competitive option.</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ol">You're introducing this notion of package deal (i.e. an extra rule) - but why exactly?&nbsp; KISS.&nbsp; And what do you do with someone that likes it simple but wants one particular trick?&nbsp; It's needlessly inflexible.</li>
</ol>I think you're overreacting to things like expertise.&nbsp; Do you think that lightning reflexes, toughness, improved initiative, or weapon focus are actually problematic?Also, in 4e a 14th level human/16th level PC of another race has 10 feats.&nbsp; How many special combat tricks does he want to learn?&nbsp; The current feat system is at its core perfectly fine; let the PC pick standard, simple options and give him the choice to branch out to get a special trick: nothing wrong with that.&nbsp; The problem is the huge explosion of boring feats (e.g. why are there so many +X to A, +X to B, +X to C feats that are essentially equal), in combination with the even greater number of extremely specialized feats for one particular class's build with one particular race (and even one particular weapon/at-will combo, sometimes!)&nbsp; These feats just make the choice really, really tedious.&nbsp; Uninterested players will choose poorly, and powergamers will find the broken options: these choices break the game.Boring fallback feats are good; too many feats are bad.&nbsp; Let me put a number on that: at the end of its life, 5e should not have more than 200 feats, preferably fewer; and it should have a set of simple default choices from day 1.&nbsp; By comparison 4e currently has 3218 feats.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="eamon, post: 5900156, member: 51942"] So let's go with this idea and see where it leads: [LIST=1] [*]We're going to have several different package deals. That's going to lead to a huge feat explosion for no good reason. This entirely defeats the purpose: [I]simplicity![/I] [*]WotC has not traditionally done a great job of making such pre-built selections. Likely it will be much weaker that a manually built selection, which kind of defeats the purpose of having a sufficiently competitive option. [*]You're introducing this notion of package deal (i.e. an extra rule) - but why exactly? KISS. And what do you do with someone that likes it simple but wants one particular trick? It's needlessly inflexible. [/LIST] I think you're overreacting to things like expertise. Do you think that lightning reflexes, toughness, improved initiative, or weapon focus are actually problematic? Also, in 4e a 14th level human/16th level PC of another race has 10 feats. How many special combat tricks does he want to learn? The current feat system is at its core perfectly fine; let the PC pick standard, simple options and give him the choice to branch out to get a special trick: nothing wrong with that. The problem is the huge explosion of boring feats (e.g. why are there so many +X to A, +X to B, +X to C feats that are essentially equal), in combination with the even greater number of extremely specialized feats for one particular class's build with one particular race (and even one particular weapon/at-will combo, sometimes!) These feats just make the choice really, really tedious. Uninterested players will choose poorly, and powergamers will find the broken options: these [I]choices [/I]break the game. Boring fallback feats are good; [I]too many [/I]feats are bad. Let me put a number on that: at the [I]end [/I]of its life, 5e should not have more than 200 feats, preferably fewer; and it should have a set of simple default choices from day 1. By comparison 4e currently has 3218 feats. [/QUOTE]

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