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Message: <blockquote data-quote="JamesonCourage" data-source="post: 5877470" data-attributes="member: 6668292">This is exactly the issue I was going to offer as an example, but my experience is the opposite of yours! When I say "these books are acceptable, and no others are" my players say "okay" and we're good. They might ask "what about this?" from time to time, but even though I always stuck to a "I don't want to cherry-pick, sorry" they always took it in stride. I did the same when my brother placed restrictions on his game.The thing is, my players are different from yours in that respect, from the sounds of it. We're okay following the DM's lead on what's allowed in his D&D campaign. We don't resent it, even if there's momentary initial disappointment. Other players, obviously, won't like that, and that's why I commented on the social contract informing each group's decisions.True. And, it's an even bigger issue if the core rules support it. These things need to be taken into account when designing the game. As always, play what you like <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />If by "for my money" you mean in order to get you to purchase the game, I agree, personally. Immersion will be key to get me to buy it. So will other things, obviously. Nothing grossly unbalanced. I want options in character building. Etc.Yeah, I think that wouldn't trample on the immersion of a wide audience, because "supernatural" has the same excuse as magic ("it's magic!") when it comes to suspension of disbelief. Which, from a design perspective, is very convenient.In my RPG (sorry to head there again), anyone can purchase an ability (via character points) that lets them inflict a status effect once per round. So, if my melee warrior buys a "prone" status effect, he can flavor is however he wants when he buys it: knocking the enemy prone with his shield; using his telepathy to push them; tripping them with fancy footwork; the force of his screams are so severe they tremble momentarily.For 5e, I'd like effects to be somewhat like this: here's what it does, and if your group can't decide how it's mundane, then it's supernatural. Let each group decide how it manifests, and each group can object to or accept supernatural effects for their mundane guys, or object to or accept powerful mundane effects for their supernatural guys. The idea of "refluffing" things is powerful, versatile, and helps each group achieve their own sense of verisimilitude.If you are going this route, however, I'd also steer clear of a myriad of "this ability Xd6 + effect" style abilities, and give a more "make-it-yourself" approach. Something similar to [MENTION=1544]Zustiur[/MENTION]'s approach to things in this post: <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/5861201-post211.html" target="_blank">http://www.enworld.org/forum/5861201-post211.html</a>. You have these moving parts, and you can create a maneuver that models something. Though, I'd prefer something with less restrictions built in. That is, he writes "Immobilized 2 options, pinned to the ground somehow (arrow through foot), or held/grappled." I'd prefer something like "the creature can't move from its square(s)" and the specifics of how that's done to be discussed when the ability is created. Do force rings appear and hold it in place? Does an arrow pin it's foot down? Then, once the flavor is decided, the group can decide whether or not it works for them.Another example: you can inflict a "dominated" status effect on creatures in my game. This would be difficult to explain as mundane most of the time, but it's still possible. If a plant creature had it, it could be described as spores, for example. If the group can justify its use as mundane, and it passes their sense of verisimilitude, go for it. If not, they don't need to buy it (or gain it as a class feature, etc.).Now, that doesn't mean that mundane characters should be forbidden from having supernatural things. Not at all. The Fighter, in my mind, should not be denied something "supernatural" like a fascination effect "because he's a Fighter." To me, if you accept it at face value as supernatural, you can justify it in any number of ways. Maybe that's an easy way to model minor multi-classsing (it's a spell). Maybe he's just that dumbfounding to opponents in combat (he's now in Epic levels, after all!). If a group doesn't like it, though, they can just say "that's ridiculous, you can't use that" and move on, and have fun. Other groups will get the benefit of the easily flavored mechanics of the game.Personally, if you're trying to appeal to such a wide variety of groups, all which have a different sense of verisimilitude, all of which have different levels of suspension of disbelief, I think that refluffing is amazingly versatile and powerful. Sorry for the long reply. As always, play what you like <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

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