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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 5877838" data-attributes="member: 42582">That's why I said "in 1st level play".But even if we're talking about the whole range of Moldvay Basic, an Elf will reach level 2 before a MU reaches level 3 (even if the MU has an XP bonus), and at level 2 will have comparable hit points (once AC is taken into account, much higher effective hp) and will have given up one 2nd level spell in exchange for better saves and viable non-spell attacks.I took your reference to Basic literally. I haven't looked at Expert recently, nor played it in more than 20 yearsI'm drawing here on my own experiences playing classic D&D, plus the examples of play in the Moldvay Basic book. In those examples, which span a sequence of play that I imagine would take an hour or so at the table, two PCs die - one to a failed poison save, one in combat.More generally, what are the non-lethal threats in Basic D&D? Traps typically deliver either (lethal) poison, or damage measured in dice that (especially at 1st level) have a good chance to be fatal. Monsters are statted up with attack and damage numbers, and the damage is all potentially lethal.I think there is a marked contrast with a game like Burning Wheel, for example, which goes to great lengths to explain how to set up and resolve situations - including combat situations - in which death is not the likely consequence of failure.This raises some interesting issues.One is that there is basically nothing in the rule books that talks about this "old school" play. I played Moldvay Basic not long after it was published (1982-84) and character abilities were crucial in our games (for example, surviving the stirges at the start of Keep on the Borderlands (I think that's the right module) required good luck and bucket loads of AC and hp). In the samples of play in the books, character abilities are crucial - there is no evidence of "old school" play, other than some tinkering with the melee round action sequence that the presentation of the sequence does not itself canvass.I don't remotely pretend to have a thorough grasp of "old school" play, but to some extent it seems to me to involve free-formed (or semi-free-formed) action resolution techniques which work around the actually published resolution mechanics. Picking up those techniques, particularly when the book doesn't talk about them, is undoubtedly a type of skill.And it's true that, the more you are resolving situations without reference to the actual character abilities and without deploying the published action resolution rules, the less the content of those abilites and rules will matter to your game. For example, if the best way to deal with stirges is to smear yourself in the foul-tasting mud that you have reason to believe will keep them away, then how many hit points you have, or what your AC is, won't matter so much.</blockquote>

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