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D&D Next Q&A: Character Roleplaying Traits, XP as Reward & Inspiration
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<blockquote data-quote="Balesir" data-source="post: 6163951" data-attributes="member: 27160"><p>Indeed you didn't - I did. I did it in an attempt to show that I understood your motivations in saying what you were saying, as I had gleaned them from your earlier posts (more on that anon), but apparently it was taken as some sort of accusation; it was intended as no such thing.</p><p></p><p>If you have some other reason for thinking that using different rules from those written in the rulebook is generally a superior option, I will treat it on its merits if you should see fit to divulge it to me. In the meantime I'll just assume that it's some sort of inscrutable secret.</p><p></p><p>No, but that wasn't my point, either. What you did do was make it clear that you thought that experienced players would be and even should be expected to develop their own rules, as shown by the quotes I respond to below.</p><p></p><p>Telling participants what they can do without giving any information about what the consequences might be seems to me to be a disfunctional way to run pretty much anything, so this seems like an obvious point. So obvious, in fact, that it applies to everyone, not just beginners. So, "telling people the rules will get them up to speed faster"? Well, yes. Of course it will. But once they have learned those rules, they won't - or at least ought not - just forget them. They will carry on using them. Learning the rules is part of learning the game, not some sort of adjunct.</p><p></p><p>This seems to fall under a similar head to your earlier assertions about desiring to abandon written rules (see below). Either the game system gives rewards for attaching personality traits and quirks to your character, in which case the rules for that should be stated, or there is some other reason why "they should develop well-rounded characters for a better roleplay experience". I have my own reasons why I think having "well-rounded characters" is desirable, but - once bitten twice shy - all I can say about your reasons is that you haven't told me what they are. So, this paragraph amounts to telling me "there are some reasons why all players ought to develop well-rounded characters, but for newbies having game rules that reward them doing so is an alternative I'm prepared to accept". I can't really respond to that, except to say that without further explanation it sounds like baloney.</p><p></p><p>Well, as I said above, that sounds like a no-brainer, to me. But, if that was your only point, why did you say earlier:</p><p>So, these rules are for beginner DMs to learn the ropes? That's not how I use them, and I think it covers only a small part of their usefulness.</p><p></p><p>So, again, the point of learning the rules is so that you can break them. Why? If the rules need changing, surely they need changing for everyone?</p><p></p><p>So, again, there is some (secret?) reason why only beginners should feel bound to follow the rules. Others should write their own rules - this is, apparently, somehow superior. Why?</p><p></p><p>I would say that it doesn't take too much experience to see whether you find a set of rules enjoyable or not; if you don't then you don't have to play by those rules - that's everyone's prerogative. What I don't understand is the assumption that this is somehow to be expected, or natural. That would only be true if the rules were crap, as far as I can see.</p><p></p><p>The only problem here is the "meant to". Try:</p><p></p><p>"But there's no reason to deny that having a set of rules and game system can help players learn to play the game and eventually play it well."</p><p></p><p>No argument there at all. You might even take the "can" out, and it would still be unobjectionable. But a set of game rules is "meant" to do a lot more than this. In fact, this is really a pretty minor part of what it does. Learning the rules is fundamental to learning the game not because the rules are some sort of tutorial, but because the rules are fundamental to the game itself. If the rules you know aren't describing how the game works <em>right now</em>, then those <u>aren't really the rules of the game</u>.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Balesir, post: 6163951, member: 27160"] Indeed you didn't - I did. I did it in an attempt to show that I understood your motivations in saying what you were saying, as I had gleaned them from your earlier posts (more on that anon), but apparently it was taken as some sort of accusation; it was intended as no such thing. If you have some other reason for thinking that using different rules from those written in the rulebook is generally a superior option, I will treat it on its merits if you should see fit to divulge it to me. In the meantime I'll just assume that it's some sort of inscrutable secret. No, but that wasn't my point, either. What you did do was make it clear that you thought that experienced players would be and even should be expected to develop their own rules, as shown by the quotes I respond to below. Telling participants what they can do without giving any information about what the consequences might be seems to me to be a disfunctional way to run pretty much anything, so this seems like an obvious point. So obvious, in fact, that it applies to everyone, not just beginners. So, "telling people the rules will get them up to speed faster"? Well, yes. Of course it will. But once they have learned those rules, they won't - or at least ought not - just forget them. They will carry on using them. Learning the rules is part of learning the game, not some sort of adjunct. This seems to fall under a similar head to your earlier assertions about desiring to abandon written rules (see below). Either the game system gives rewards for attaching personality traits and quirks to your character, in which case the rules for that should be stated, or there is some other reason why "they should develop well-rounded characters for a better roleplay experience". I have my own reasons why I think having "well-rounded characters" is desirable, but - once bitten twice shy - all I can say about your reasons is that you haven't told me what they are. So, this paragraph amounts to telling me "there are some reasons why all players ought to develop well-rounded characters, but for newbies having game rules that reward them doing so is an alternative I'm prepared to accept". I can't really respond to that, except to say that without further explanation it sounds like baloney. Well, as I said above, that sounds like a no-brainer, to me. But, if that was your only point, why did you say earlier: So, these rules are for beginner DMs to learn the ropes? That's not how I use them, and I think it covers only a small part of their usefulness. So, again, the point of learning the rules is so that you can break them. Why? If the rules need changing, surely they need changing for everyone? So, again, there is some (secret?) reason why only beginners should feel bound to follow the rules. Others should write their own rules - this is, apparently, somehow superior. Why? I would say that it doesn't take too much experience to see whether you find a set of rules enjoyable or not; if you don't then you don't have to play by those rules - that's everyone's prerogative. What I don't understand is the assumption that this is somehow to be expected, or natural. That would only be true if the rules were crap, as far as I can see. The only problem here is the "meant to". Try: "But there's no reason to deny that having a set of rules and game system can help players learn to play the game and eventually play it well." No argument there at all. You might even take the "can" out, and it would still be unobjectionable. But a set of game rules is "meant" to do a lot more than this. In fact, this is really a pretty minor part of what it does. Learning the rules is fundamental to learning the game not because the rules are some sort of tutorial, but because the rules are fundamental to the game itself. If the rules you know aren't describing how the game works [I]right now[/I], then those [U]aren't really the rules of the game[/U]. [/QUOTE]
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