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<blockquote data-quote="Mirrorrorrim" data-source="post: 9253920" data-attributes="member: 7040132"><p><strong>Rules While Transformed. </strong>While in a form, you retain your personality, memories, and ability to speak, and the following rules apply:</p><p><strong>Game Statistics. </strong>Your game statistics are replaced by the statistics of the Beast, but you retain your Hit Points; Hit Dice; Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores; class features; languages; and feats. You also retain your skill and saving throw proficiencies and use your Proficiency Bonus for them, in addition to gaining those of the creature. If the creature has the same proficiency as you and the bonus in its stat block is higher than yours, use the creature’s bonus instead of yours. If the creature has any legendary or lair actions, you can’t use them.</p><p></p><p>Let's say a <strong>16th level Druid</strong> wants to willdshape into an animal that doesn't have a higher level stat block. Like a <strong>Panther</strong>. Note that it will get the following damage bonuses:</p><p><strong>Improved Lunar Radiance: </strong>+1d10 radiant damage per strike.</p><p><strong>Elemental Fury (Primal Strike)</strong>: +2d8 elemental damage on 1 attack, 1x per round.</p><p></p><p><strong>Panther </strong>CR 1/4</p><p>Medium Beast</p><p>Armor Class 18 (Moon Druid is 13+Wis Mod)</p><p>Hit Points: Druid HP+48 THP (Moon Druid gives THP = 3x Druid Level)</p><p>Speed: 50 ft., Climb 40 ft.</p><p>STR 14 (+2)</p><p>DEX 15 (+2)</p><p>CON 10 (+2)</p><p>INT 10 (+0) Druid's Intelligence</p><p>WIS 20 (+5) Druid's Wisdom</p><p>CHA 10 (+0) Druid's Charisma</p><p><strong>Skills: </strong>Druid Skills plus Perception +11, Stealth +8</p><p><strong>Proficiency Bonus: </strong>+6</p><p><em><strong>Pounce.</strong></em> If the panther moves at least 20 feet straight toward a creature and then hits it with a claw attack on the same turn, that target must succeed on a DC 12 Strength saving throw or be knocked <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/compendium/rules/basic-rules/appendix-a-conditions#Prone" target="_blank">prone</a>. If the target is <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/compendium/rules/basic-rules/appendix-a-conditions#Prone" target="_blank">prone</a>, the panther can make one bite attack against it as a bonus action. (Note: Where in the rules does it state that the DC increase with the PB increase?</p><p><strong>Choose one attack per round:</strong></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><em><strong>Bite.</strong> Melee Weapon Attack:</em> +8 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. <em>Hit:</em> 5 (1d6 + 2) piercing or radiant damage, plus 1d10 radiant damage, +2d8 elemental damage 1x/round</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><em><strong>Claw.</strong> Melee Weapon Attack:</em> +8 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. <em>Hit:</em> 4 (1d4 + 2) slashing or radiant damage, , plus 1d10 radiant damage.</li> </ul><p>Even a Sabre-toothed Tiger at CR 2 skinned as a large Panther only increases the base bite damage from 1d6+2 to 1d10+5, and the base claw damage from 1d4+2 to 2d6+5. They each only get one attack per round unless the Pounce works on round 1.</p><p></p><p>Compare both to the damage to a <strong>Giant Crocodile </strong>that is CR 5:</p><p></p><p><strong>Giant Crocodile </strong>CR 5; PB+3 base</p><p><em><strong>Multiattack.</strong></em> The crocodile makes two attacks: one with its bite and one with its tail.</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><em><strong>Bite.</strong> Melee Weapon Attack:</em> +11 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. <em>Hit:</em> 21 (<strong>3d10 + 5</strong>) piercing or radiant damage, <strong>+1d10</strong> radiant damage, <strong>+2d8</strong> elemental damage 1x/round, and the target is <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/compendium/rules/basic-rules/appendix-a-conditions#Grappled" target="_blank">grappled</a> (escape DC 16). Until this grapple ends, the target is <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/compendium/rules/basic-rules/appendix-a-conditions#Restrained" target="_blank">restrained</a>, and the crocodile can't bite another target. (Does the DC increase by +3 due to the +6 PB?)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><em><strong>Tail.</strong> Melee Weapon Attack:</em> +11 to hit, reach 10 ft., one target not <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/compendium/rules/basic-rules/appendix-a-conditions#Grappled" target="_blank">grappled</a> by the crocodile. <em>Hit:</em> 14 (<strong>2d8 + 5</strong>) bludgeoning or radiant damage, <strong>+1d10 </strong>radiant damage. If the target is a creature, it must succeed on a DC 16 Strength saving throw or be knocked <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/compendium/rules/basic-rules/appendix-a-conditions#Prone" target="_blank">prone</a>. (Does the DC increase by +3 due to the +6 PB?)</li> </ul><p></p><p>It's no contest.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Mirrorrorrim, post: 9253920, member: 7040132"] [B]Rules While Transformed. [/B]While in a form, you retain your personality, memories, and ability to speak, and the following rules apply: [B]Game Statistics. [/B]Your game statistics are replaced by the statistics of the Beast, but you retain your Hit Points; Hit Dice; Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores; class features; languages; and feats. You also retain your skill and saving throw proficiencies and use your Proficiency Bonus for them, in addition to gaining those of the creature. If the creature has the same proficiency as you and the bonus in its stat block is higher than yours, use the creature’s bonus instead of yours. If the creature has any legendary or lair actions, you can’t use them. Let's say a [B]16th level Druid[/B] wants to willdshape into an animal that doesn't have a higher level stat block. Like a [B]Panther[/B]. Note that it will get the following damage bonuses: [B]Improved Lunar Radiance: [/B]+1d10 radiant damage per strike. [B]Elemental Fury (Primal Strike)[/B]: +2d8 elemental damage on 1 attack, 1x per round. [B]Panther [/B]CR 1/4 Medium Beast Armor Class 18 (Moon Druid is 13+Wis Mod) Hit Points: Druid HP+48 THP (Moon Druid gives THP = 3x Druid Level) Speed: 50 ft., Climb 40 ft. STR 14 (+2) DEX 15 (+2) CON 10 (+2) INT 10 (+0) Druid's Intelligence WIS 20 (+5) Druid's Wisdom CHA 10 (+0) Druid's Charisma [B]Skills: [/B]Druid Skills plus Perception +11, Stealth +8 [B]Proficiency Bonus: [/B]+6 [I][B]Pounce.[/B][/I] If the panther moves at least 20 feet straight toward a creature and then hits it with a claw attack on the same turn, that target must succeed on a DC 12 Strength saving throw or be knocked [URL='https://www.dndbeyond.com/compendium/rules/basic-rules/appendix-a-conditions#Prone']prone[/URL]. If the target is [URL='https://www.dndbeyond.com/compendium/rules/basic-rules/appendix-a-conditions#Prone']prone[/URL], the panther can make one bite attack against it as a bonus action. (Note: Where in the rules does it state that the DC increase with the PB increase? [B]Choose one attack per round:[/B] [LIST] [*][I][B]Bite.[/B] Melee Weapon Attack:[/I] +8 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. [I]Hit:[/I] 5 (1d6 + 2) piercing or radiant damage, plus 1d10 radiant damage, +2d8 elemental damage 1x/round [*][I][B]Claw.[/B] Melee Weapon Attack:[/I] +8 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. [I]Hit:[/I] 4 (1d4 + 2) slashing or radiant damage, , plus 1d10 radiant damage. [/LIST] Even a Sabre-toothed Tiger at CR 2 skinned as a large Panther only increases the base bite damage from 1d6+2 to 1d10+5, and the base claw damage from 1d4+2 to 2d6+5. They each only get one attack per round unless the Pounce works on round 1. Compare both to the damage to a [B]Giant Crocodile [/B]that is CR 5: [B]Giant Crocodile [/B]CR 5; PB+3 base [I][B]Multiattack.[/B][/I] The crocodile makes two attacks: one with its bite and one with its tail. [LIST] [*][I][B]Bite.[/B] Melee Weapon Attack:[/I] +11 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. [I]Hit:[/I] 21 ([B]3d10 + 5[/B]) piercing or radiant damage, [B]+1d10[/B] radiant damage, [B]+2d8[/B] elemental damage 1x/round, and the target is [URL='https://www.dndbeyond.com/compendium/rules/basic-rules/appendix-a-conditions#Grappled']grappled[/URL] (escape DC 16). Until this grapple ends, the target is [URL='https://www.dndbeyond.com/compendium/rules/basic-rules/appendix-a-conditions#Restrained']restrained[/URL], and the crocodile can't bite another target. (Does the DC increase by +3 due to the +6 PB?) [*][I][B]Tail.[/B] Melee Weapon Attack:[/I] +11 to hit, reach 10 ft., one target not [URL='https://www.dndbeyond.com/compendium/rules/basic-rules/appendix-a-conditions#Grappled']grappled[/URL] by the crocodile. [I]Hit:[/I] 14 ([B]2d8 + 5[/B]) bludgeoning or radiant damage, [B]+1d10 [/B]radiant damage. If the target is a creature, it must succeed on a DC 16 Strength saving throw or be knocked [URL='https://www.dndbeyond.com/compendium/rules/basic-rules/appendix-a-conditions#Prone']prone[/URL]. (Does the DC increase by +3 due to the +6 PB?) [/LIST] It's no contest. [/QUOTE]
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