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Message: <blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 6098795" data-attributes="member: 2067">Sounds pretty cynical to me, but I don't think I've met any of your mythical people who just have it out for the Fighter and who won't rest until playing one sucks for all D&D players everywhere. My point is that this isn't a relevant tangent -- it doesn't matter if someone somewhere thinks that. They're free to do so and to play the game they like, too. That's not really what we're talking about here, though. Not sure where you're getting your info, but according to WotC:That's what the fighter is meant to be. That's the archetype they fill. And that pretty clearly reaches into "battlefield tactician" territory."I'm good with weapons" isn't a big enough hook, really. Your archetypes aren't on-target. Classes aren't packages of abilities, they are playstyle choices.Barbarians aren't about berserking, they're a character choice that represents a desire for the player to play a certain kind of character, in a certain manner -- a wild, barely-restrained character who swings dangerously and is risky to have around. Berserking is a mechanic that helps reinforce that.Monks aren't about martial arts, they're a character choice that represents that same desire -- in this case, a controlled, reserved character who unleashes semi-mystical buttkicking and personal enlightenment. Unarmed attacking is a mechanic that helps reinforce that. The NEXT fighter can already be a duelist, or an archer. That's not "big tough guy" territory. "Big tough guy" is one way to play the fighter, but so is "agile speedster" or "calm marksman." It can certainly, in my mind, include "clever leader." These are all about that warrior archetype. That's the playstyle choice, here: the fighter is a master of combat, a warrior through-and-through, whose world is colored by experience in deadly combat, and whose skill lies there. You seem to want the Fighter to be something much more limited and specific than it has largely been in D&D, historically (where they were becoming lords and leading armies by level 9!). All fighters are not big tough guys. All fighters are heroic warriors -- which includes the big tough guy, but also includes the keen-eyed sniper and the witty swordsman and the courageous, clever leader. And characters with a bit of all those.</blockquote>

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