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Message: <blockquote data-quote="mlund" data-source="post: 6099075" data-attributes="member: 50304">1.) You omitted the command auras.2.) You also neglected the fact that "Parry" is not a maneuver.3.) Fighters get Combat Surges too.Sure, if you ignore everything in the class other than Combat Expertise and Weapon/Armor Proficiency, it's just the same thing with a new coat of paint - just like the Rogue (smaller hit die, worse equipment, more skills, swap maneuvers for tricks) and the Monk (smaller hit die, doesn't need equipment, custom maneuvers list, a couple of ki uses per day). Characters with strictly martial abilities have a core chassis you have to balance around, and trying to introduce Daily or Encounter restrictions on Tactics sends a certain percentage of the population into apoplectic fits so you're stuck with the at-will baseline, limiting your metrics, certainly. Class is a lot more than metrics, or so we've been told.Once you start replacing non-optional class features, hit dice, spell / maneuvers lists, etc. and such you've generally got another class on your hands. You can make the same reductionist arguments with Magician variants (Clerics and Wizards) as you can with Fighting Man variants (Rogues, Fighters, Barbarians, and Monks). It just doesn't get you very far (trust me, I was all for it but DNDNext went in another direction).Just adding 4-5 things to the maneuvers list and creating a "Tactical Leader" Fighting Style isn't going to cut it. Then you've just murdered the Warlord and watered a couple of features down badly enough to fence them to the Fighter without causing play-balance issues. You've also completely eliminated any aspect of choice in the design of a Warlord because there's only room for 1-style (tops!) worth of maneuvers on the Fighter's already-crowded list.- Marty Lund</blockquote>

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