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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Damon Griffin" data-source="post: 994268" data-attributes="member: 3568">jgbrowning, I think you have misunderstood some of my objections.I have no problem with this at all.  Not having tried it out myself, or even taken very much time to think about it yet, I didn't feel qualified to comment on the DC system you'd mentioned, but my first impression was that it might well be a workable system.If you'll review the quoted portion of my previous response to you, you'll see that what I took issue with was the notion that the price list in the PHB could be used as is, and simply regarded as "tourist prices", which is what I inferred from the first paragraph of your post.  My previous message had nothing to say about your suggested DC system.I wasn't being entirely serious when I asked about using the Hat of Disguise to get a lower price, but it seemed a reasonable question given that your NPCs were described as being able to decide I was filthy rich based solely on the fact that I wasn't from around there.  I have a hard time following the logic "We're poor, therefore everyone else must be rich."Only heavy fighters are likely to be encased in 45 pounds of metal, though I agree that would be one indication of wealth.  The fact that they've never seen me before or that my accent is different means nothing whatsoever.  If my "strangeness" means they aren't inclined to trust me right away, that's fine.  But it's no clue to my level of relative poverty or wealth.  Weapons that show a lot of use might have belonged to my father, and I could be using them because I've never been able to afford to buy one of my own.  In combination with other factors, a well-used weapon might be an indicator, but all by itself, it's not proof of anything.  Your NPCs seem ready to take anything out of the ordinary as proof of staggering wealth.How else do you define price gouging, if not as dramatically overchanging someone -- 5x, 10x, even 20x the price you'd usually charge -- just because you think you can get away with it?  And I still say there's no way for every NPC I run into to "know" what I can afford at any given time.  It's very possible for 10th level PCs to be flat broke.  Yes, I have the potential to go raid a dungeon somewhere and acquire more wealth.  But you can't very well expect me to pay for food and basic equipment based on my future earning potential.  I have to pay for it with cash on hand.  The "set" or "right" price is whatever price, given current local conditions, best balances supply and demand in such a way as to provide the merchant with a reasonable profit for his goods and services.   As you and others have pointed out, a number of factors can affect just what this price is, and we don't want to take up a lot of D&D time accurately detailing those economics.  But if the price of a sack of grain is 2cp at noon, and increases to 2sp at five minutes after noon when I walk through the door wearing a worn set of leather armor, a mace in need of minor repair and a stained travel cloak -- because the merchant sees that I am obviously wealthy enough to pay 10x the normal price for food for my horse -- and then drops to 2cp again as soon as I leave town, that merchant has engaged in price gouging, based on information he could not realistically have had.The six numbered questions could have been answered or taken as rhetorical; either way, their main purpose was to point out that treating the PHB price list as a price list for PCs only was not a good overall solution, in part because it lacks sufficient internal logic.I have MMS:WE, as a matter of fact, as well as the much earlier non-d20 product, Harn Manor.  Both do their jobs well, but both are pretty heavily grounded in the assumption that you will be using a feudal economy, which doesn't always work in D&D campaigns (and works less well in our current campaign than in many, but in this thread I was discussing the general problem.)See my comments above on price gouging.  I believe the listed prices should be used as guidelines as well, and adjusted appropriately in response to a variety of factors.  Again, your DC system may be a good mechanic for of doing that, or in some cases the DM may just want to use a "best guess" estimate.But "it's only a guideline" doesn't justify a huge price discrepancy between goods and services bought by a PC and an NPC, when all other factors are equal.  PCs can be extremely poor.  NPCs can be extremely rich.  Your own preconceptions about 45 pounds of metal aside, my characters do not have "PC" stamped on their foreheads, and should not be charged many times the [current, DM-adjusted, locally supportable] market price for items solely on their PC status.If I said I was an NPC, would your NPC be able to prove otherwise?  Either sort of character can be high level or low level; either sort of character can have loads of money and magic items.  The terms "PC" and "NPC" are totally meaningless within the game, and should not be used in a conscious decision making process by either sort of character.With very few exceptions, and those on a very small scale: No, I do not want to get into that level of detail.  Too much work for the DM, given that most of it wouldn't be much fun for the players.  But there is middle ground here.  It is possible to use a reasonable set of prices in the game, and allow for some variation in those prices, without requiring that complex game mechanics be used to simulate each potential economic influence.In fact I believe you just said that yourself...</blockquote>

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