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Message: <blockquote data-quote="jgbrowning" data-source="post: 994435" data-attributes="member: 5724">If you want to remove that idea because it doesn't jive well with your campaign its pretty easily done. The system should work without that idea. It was an attempt to explain why the prices for items were higher than what would be a decent historical comparison given the time period discussed. Given the history of how the prices were created, I used the "tourist" idea.It does mean quite a lot. You either1.have enough money to support yourself independant of the land2. you have enough land elsewhere to be separate from itor3. you have a business that you can be absent from.Strangeness, if not coupled with only itinerant work clothes means you have a lot of fiscal resources.Owning a weapon (more than a club) means you have a reason to have a weapon, especially upon your person. That, again, generally means wealth. Poor people have rarely carried weapons in traditional DnD worlds.Everything is in combination with other factors. I didn't mean to imply otherwise.price gouging is dependant upon the idea than an item has a "market" price based upon a large sampling of similiar items over a significant physical space independant of social class.None of those conditions will be found in a pseudo-medieval DnD world. Prices for items will vary depending upon which market you go to in just one city alone.Its hard to explain to people used to our modern world. So I'll use an example of vegetables.Market A is close to the gates where the vegetables come into the city. In market A the vegetables cost 10. The vegetables are bough by merchants in market A who then hire laborers to move the vegetables to market B (on the other side of town) where they'll sell the vegetables for 12.  To we moderns, that may seem ridicules...  a 20% increase for a 1/4 mile distance?I've seen it happen, even today. You want vegetables you go to the vegetable market unless you want to pay significantly more. When we were in India we'd get bannanas for 2 rupees a bannana at the market, you want a bannana anywhere else in the city however, it'll cost you 4.Actually, quite a bit of the medieval economy was based upon "future earning potential." The merchant could say, "I know you're broke now.. but no one's going to sell you that for less than 100gp.  I'll give it to you for 75gp as long as you swear to give me 100gp more by the end of the month."  Almost any arraignment of payment is possible.  Again, unlike the modern world, it is a social transaction as well as fiscal.As modern consumers we expect a CD to cost what's listed on the cover. In a medieval world there are no listed prices. What people pay depends upon how well they bargain, who they are, and how much wealth the seller thinks they have.Again to use India, they have price tages.  But those tags are maximum price tags set by the goverment. Which is very similiar to the maximum prices the guilds would set in the medieval period.Once I bough a box of crackers for a homeless kid. The max. rupee price was 150 on the box, but when I said that was too much, and that I was buying it for the kid, the shopkeeper sold it to me for 50.  That would never had happened even if i bargained my best and went to every shopkeeper in town.Why?  Well they know that I have more. They know that If I want it, i'll pay that much.  They also know that if they go too low, all of their neighbors will eventually find out and then they're in a difficult social situation.  That's what medieval adventuring PCs are more than likely going to face.This accurately discribes what you above called "price gouging." That price is the "right" price because no merchant is going to let you get a "local" price because they know you have no social power within the community while they have social power within the community.  Also the concept of "reasonable profit" as your using it there, doesn't exist. Thats utterly modern.The only reasonable profit is that amount that the buyer is willing to pay while at the same time the seller is willing to sell.  This amount varies based upon social standing, wealth, community status, and haggleing skills.A merchant will name one price to one person and another to another and they'll charge you double price right to your face. If you ask the locals about how much something should cost, they are going to take one look at you and give you the "tourist" amount because they know you'll never get what they will.If you follow modern economic theory, it shouldn't happen. Unfortunately, that is what's going to happen. (Why do you think we have laws against it now, even with our advanced economic systems?) In fact the price will change right before your eyes.  And No one in that society thinks such an action is wrong because they know you aren't "one of them" and you have more money and you have no social power. Once that changes, the price will changeIt depends on what you need that internal logic to do. How much do you need it to simulate?True. If your not using a medieval economy things will be different. But the "tourist" price idea is nigh universal. Even now, when you travel outside of 1st world countries there is basically a two tier pricing system. (Its actually more complex than that, often there are several tiers.. for example an american may get charged more than an japanese person or vice versa depending on where the exchange takes place.)See above as to why, under many circumstances PCs will be treated differently. Also, if your going to compaire the books price system to RL, what are you comparing it too? Roman, Russian 5th century, Mezo-American, Scots medieval, Southern France Medieval?  It's a massively complex idea.I agree to a point. However the game is about PCs, so maintaining NPC relations doesn't require a very complex system.Yes, I did.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />  I think however that what we're talking about is two different concepts of what "reasonable set of prices" in the game is.To me, the prices are whack when compared to almost any historical period. Well, that's because their prices a for a fantasy world. In fact, the prices weren't designed to function independant of PC interaction, they were designed to function as a means of PC interaction with the environment in a number of ways.However, they are the baseline for communication of value within the game system, and a lot of other aspects of the system are designed around those prices (PC expected wealth which translates into PC expect magic which translated into PC expected personal power which translates into Challange ratings).I'm glad you got MMS:WE, i appreciate it. I'm doubly glad you're just as nerdy as me and I'm enjoying the conversation.joe b.</blockquote>

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