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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Steverooo" data-source="post: 995194" data-attributes="member: 9410">In order to barter, one must first have something of value to barter.  In order to farm chickens, one must first purchase some chickens or chicks, and then feed them.  In order to cut firewood, one must first have an axe.  Whether farmers barter, or go gather sticks to sell on the highway and then go spend the money thus earned, the effect is still the same.  He cannot cut wood without the axe.  The axe costs 5 GP.  He earns 1 SP/day (which, according to the PHB would buy low quality food for one person for one day).  From this, he must feed himself, his wife, his family, his chickens, his mule (unless he can pull the plough, himself), any other farm animals, pay for the plough and any other tools, and save 50 day's worth of wages (whether in grain, egg money, etc.), so that he can save up to buy the axe...Okay, let's assume the wife helps, and they have four boys and two girls.  Mom and the girls grow a garden, which produces no monetary increase, but does provide food and cooking herbs, in season.  Let's say that all three, together, with all household tasks, add 1 SP/day (average) to the family...  During the spring they add little, but during summer and autumn, the garden provides some food.  During the winter, then card and spin wool into thread (assuming they have an expensive spinning wheel, which the farmer may or may not be able to make).  Maybe the wife can make girdles, which she sells to a shopkeep, who sells them in his store.Meanwhile, the four sons add an average of 2 SP/day, working with dad on the farm.  Thus, the total family income is 4 SP/day.  Assuming that the children eat 1/2 as much as the adults, they need 5 SP/day to stay afloat, and more than that to save for the axe to chop firewood...So, two kids die, because 1 SP is lacking.  Their work is now gone, and the family's output drops by about 1 SP/day, so two more die...  This cycle continues until the farmer's wife dies, at which point the farmer can sustain himself on 1 SP/day, as long as he buys nothing, ever.Of course, sooner or later, his tools will wear out.  He is bartering for a subsistence-level living, and cannot replace anything without doing without food.If this were the way things really worked, then peasants should be a dying breed, and getting people to "work for food", and go down into the dungeon with you should be easy!  They're doomed, anyway!What I wonder about is, how did Grandpa get the money to start being a farmer, anyway?  Did he, by long trial and error, make his own spinning wheel and plough?  Even today, with lathes and other machines, a simple spinning wheel costs over $300.  What a plough costs, I couldn't say, but it would've been more, back then, made by hand.  And those chickens!  And that axe to cut wood with!  And horseshoes for the mule!  And FORGET EVER being so rich as to have saved enough goods to have bartered for a wagon!So how do farmers do it, in 3e?  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f631.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":eek:" title="Eek!    :eek:"  data-smilie="9"data-shortname=":eek:" /> Oh, yeah,...  It's magic!  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f644.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":rolleyes:" title="Roll eyes    :rolleyes:"  data-smilie="11"data-shortname=":rolleyes:" /></blockquote>

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