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Message: <blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 8534908" data-attributes="member: 6790260">If that were actually the claim I had presented and intended to defend, then yes, you would be correct. It's not, and I really don't understand how you got that. Yes, that's a claim that has been made in this thread, but the specific point I was making--and which we had been discussing prior--was that many real, actual players actually do use orcs as no-thought KoS targets, to the point that that's essential to what "an orc" is as far as they're concerned.In sequence as quoted:Immaculata, speaking more broadly rather than necessarily of their own game, said, "Orcs are the stormtroopers of the D&D universe. They are evil, and only there to be chopped into pieces by the heroes, without us feeling to much over it." That's...literally exactly what I was telling you that people do. That people really, truly do just see orcs as Inherently Acceptable Targets, without even a fig-leaf justification.Hexmage's core point is, as you said, that alignment is more critical to "what D&D is" than orcs. But, beneath that point, there is another: to make an orc not inherently evil is to weaken alignment, so if we must choose between non-evil orcs and no orcs, no orcs is preferable. Being inherently evil is implicitly essential to what an orc is; to remove their inherent evil is to weaken alignment; alignment is more important than orcs; therefore, if one must go, it should be orcs.And Oofta is openly stating exactly what I spoke of: "I don't have a problem with evil monsters no matter what form they take or what fluff is given." How is that not an explicit "it doesn't matter how sapient or human-like a monstrous race is, if they're pure evil, they're pure evil, and that's fine."?I mean, I do hold that opinion--or, rather, since you asked for clarity, "No one should intentionally have human-like sapient beings that are inherently aligned, whether good, evil, or something else"--but that's not the point I was making here. I was, very specifically, arguing against your point that almost nobody uses orcs et al. as "no need to think, just kill 'em" monsters. These quotes seem perfectly cromulent for demonstrating that point: that plenty of completely real people really do have sapient-looking beings that are Just Pure Evil, and thus there's never any reason to feel bad about killing them.</blockquote>

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