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Message: <blockquote data-quote="dvvega" data-source="post: 1819109" data-attributes="member: 524">Personally, somewhere in my subconscious, I agree that Touch Attacks shouldn't exist. However the reason is not because I want to simplify the rules, but rather that I don't agree with a spellcaster being able to bypass armour. I think touch spells should actually touch the opponent on the body (clothed is okay under this concept).Case in Point: I'm in full plate mail - there are limited access points to my body, especially since I have padded armour underneath and possibly chain lining. I am hit with a cause wounds spell - how did he touch me in the first place, I'm surrounded in metal. I think that a spell caster should have to hit my normal AC ... in addition if I wear magical armour, I should have magical protection (UA added a house rule for this situation which allows magic bonuses to count, but not a complete solution).It makes certain spellcaster types extremely powerful. For example: a wizard with a maximised ray of enfeeblement requires a touch attack. The super AC fighter suddenly can't even walk in his armour because of the ray that touched him. If the ray had to get past his armour, he at least has a chance to avoid it.I agree with the fact that Touch Attacks are suitable for a grapple - you are only grabbing onto someone, not trying to penetrate their armour.The exception I can see is a spell like Shocking Grasp. Touch the guy in metal armour and the freak should fry. But this can easily be translated into a bonus to hit a person in metal armour, and some extra damage (or no save if in metal).Of course with this concept, bypassing someones metal armour would be less strength based (you're not punching through it, just trying to get into the joints etc), and possible more dexterity based. Or perhaps you could allow either stat since strength could be justified as pushing past the opponents shield to touch under his arm or something -=shrug=-.Well I guess I deviated from the thread's purpose.</blockquote>

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