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<blockquote data-quote="Nagol" data-source="post: 6044348" data-attributes="member: 23935">When I play a game like Bioshock or Halo, I'm playing to see how the author progresses the story.&nbsp; The game elements are there to keep me engaged and (frankly) draw out the telling of the story long enough to make me feel sufficiently entertained.&nbsp; I understand going in that I am fulfilling a pre-written role and will have no impact on the story other than a &quot;kill-count&quot; (and sometimes not even that).&nbsp; The save points are a acknowledgement that not every person will be sufficiently strong in skill to get through the missions on the a single attempt and are there to keep player frustration low enough that the player may reasonably finish the game before running out of patience.None of those premises are true when I play a RPG like D&amp;D.&nbsp; I am playing to see how my character progresses in the environment.&nbsp; There is no overarching narrative pre-set for me.&nbsp; The character's goals and method chosen to achieve those goals are informed by my desire and the initial situation the character encounters.If a TPK happens there are three possibilities: <ol>
<li data-xf-list-type="ol">We knew it was a possibility and accepted the risk because the potential payoff was suffiicient.&nbsp; If we replay it, it undercuts our risk/reward evaluation -- there is no risk other than we'll get bored trying the scenario over again.&nbsp; We will get that reward eventually. 
</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ol">We didn't understand the risk and got in over our heads with no way out.&nbsp; If we replay it, we've lost the feeling of discovery since we already know more features of the situation than we should.&nbsp; This undercuts the need for investigation and research since we can charge in and die as a form of recon or at very least have a recovery mechanism to pull us back from the brink. 
</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ol">The random element behaved badly and made a known minor risk situation very deadly and we couldn't recover in time.&nbsp; This undercuts contingency planning as well as the research and planning to a degree.</li>
</ol>Adding the feature of save points offers me nothing of particular value and will affect the behaviour of my and other player characters in ways that are more likely to be detrimental to my enjoyment than adding to it.&nbsp; But that's just me.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Nagol, post: 6044348, member: 23935"] When I play a game like [I]Bioshock[/I] or [I]Halo[/I], I'm playing to see how the author progresses the story. The game elements are there to keep me engaged and (frankly) draw out the telling of the story long enough to make me feel sufficiently entertained. I understand going in that I am fulfilling a pre-written role and will have no impact on the story other than a "kill-count" (and sometimes not even that). The save points are a acknowledgement that not every person will be sufficiently strong in skill to get through the missions on the a single attempt and are there to keep player frustration low enough that the player may reasonably finish the game before running out of patience. None of those premises are true when I play a RPG like D&D. I am playing to see how my character progresses in the environment. There is no overarching narrative pre-set for me. The character's goals and method chosen to achieve those goals are informed by my desire and the initial situation the character encounters. If a TPK happens there are three possibilities: [LIST=1] [*]We knew it was a possibility and accepted the risk because the potential payoff was suffiicient. If we replay it, it undercuts our risk/reward evaluation -- there is no risk other than we'll get bored trying the scenario over again. We will get that reward eventually. [*]We didn't understand the risk and got in over our heads with no way out. If we replay it, we've lost the feeling of discovery since we already know more features of the situation than we should. This undercuts the need for investigation and research since we can charge in and die as a form of recon or at very least have a recovery mechanism to pull us back from the brink. [*]The random element behaved badly and made a known minor risk situation very deadly and we couldn't recover in time. This undercuts contingency planning as well as the research and planning to a degree. [/LIST] Adding the feature of save points offers me nothing of particular value and will affect the behaviour of my and other player characters in ways that are more likely to be detrimental to my enjoyment than adding to it. But that's just me. [/QUOTE]

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