Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
D&D without Resource Management
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="DEFCON 1" data-source="post: 9205478" data-attributes="member: 7006"><p>No. So long as the game is built with multiple classes over many, many levels... you need different ways to do things in order to make those extra classes and extra levels mean something. If your higher levels in the game are run and played exactly as they do at lower levels except that just the numbers are "bigger" across the board... it makes a person wonder what is the point of having those higher levels. If they don't do anything to make the game different-- proportionally OR narratively-- then there's no reason to bother with them. It's the same as the old World of Warcraft problem of your character fighting 5th level spiders at the start of the game and then fighting 89th level spiders that look exactly the same seven expansions in-- the spiders are no different, its just that the numbers are bigger. So what's the point?</p><p></p><p>Likewise, if you have twelve different classes but the mechanics all work very similarly (because you want less resource management of <em>different</em> types for players to have to learn and remember), it certainly makes them easier to learn across all the classes... but unless the flavor and narrative of them is really strong and can overpower the mechanical similarity... it can make one wonder why it's necessary to have all those classes. If the rules do not do anything to distinguish one class from another, then it comes down to the actual players and DMs to infuse their characters and monsters with enough flavor, personality, and non-mechanical fluff to make these things <em>seem</em> and <em>feel</em> different. And that comes down to description, detail, and acting. If you don't <em>act</em> (or <em>narrate</em>) as though your warrior is different than the wizard (both in how you behave and in what you do and try to accomplish)... then the fact that they both would have the same mechanical rules and same resource management means the characters <em>aren't</em> different.</p><p></p><p>D&D is a merging of board game and improv game. That's what it is. You need both for it to actually be what it was designed to do. But if you are a table that ignores one side and only focuses on the other... you need that side you focus on to be compelling and different in the places where that difference is meant to be meaningful. If you forsake the improv game and only focus on the board game... AND you want Classes to be meaningfully different from one another... then you HAVE to make the mechanics work differently for each one. Otherwise you get the "tokens in Monopoly" problem, where playing the Shoe or the Iron or the Car means <em>literally nothing</em> to the game other than the aesthetics of the token itself. Those rules of Monopoly better be so engaging as a board game that it doesn't matter that the "class" of your token has no impact to how the game is played and how you enjoy it. Just like how being a Fighter versus a Wizard doesn't matter if the game mechanics for both of them are the same as well.</p><p></p><p>That D&D board game better be really really good. Otherwise, you're going to <em>want</em> the mechanics for each class or different levels of the game to be different enough to make their individual experiences unique. Either that... or you better really go all-in on the narrative and story and improv because THAT'S how you'll make the Fighter and Wizard different and 3rd level and 16th level different in D&D even if the mechanics are exactly the same.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="DEFCON 1, post: 9205478, member: 7006"] No. So long as the game is built with multiple classes over many, many levels... you need different ways to do things in order to make those extra classes and extra levels mean something. If your higher levels in the game are run and played exactly as they do at lower levels except that just the numbers are "bigger" across the board... it makes a person wonder what is the point of having those higher levels. If they don't do anything to make the game different-- proportionally OR narratively-- then there's no reason to bother with them. It's the same as the old World of Warcraft problem of your character fighting 5th level spiders at the start of the game and then fighting 89th level spiders that look exactly the same seven expansions in-- the spiders are no different, its just that the numbers are bigger. So what's the point? Likewise, if you have twelve different classes but the mechanics all work very similarly (because you want less resource management of [I]different[/I] types for players to have to learn and remember), it certainly makes them easier to learn across all the classes... but unless the flavor and narrative of them is really strong and can overpower the mechanical similarity... it can make one wonder why it's necessary to have all those classes. If the rules do not do anything to distinguish one class from another, then it comes down to the actual players and DMs to infuse their characters and monsters with enough flavor, personality, and non-mechanical fluff to make these things [I]seem[/I] and [I]feel[/I] different. And that comes down to description, detail, and acting. If you don't [I]act[/I] (or [I]narrate[/I]) as though your warrior is different than the wizard (both in how you behave and in what you do and try to accomplish)... then the fact that they both would have the same mechanical rules and same resource management means the characters [I]aren't[/I] different. D&D is a merging of board game and improv game. That's what it is. You need both for it to actually be what it was designed to do. But if you are a table that ignores one side and only focuses on the other... you need that side you focus on to be compelling and different in the places where that difference is meant to be meaningful. If you forsake the improv game and only focus on the board game... AND you want Classes to be meaningfully different from one another... then you HAVE to make the mechanics work differently for each one. Otherwise you get the "tokens in Monopoly" problem, where playing the Shoe or the Iron or the Car means [I]literally nothing[/I] to the game other than the aesthetics of the token itself. Those rules of Monopoly better be so engaging as a board game that it doesn't matter that the "class" of your token has no impact to how the game is played and how you enjoy it. Just like how being a Fighter versus a Wizard doesn't matter if the game mechanics for both of them are the same as well. That D&D board game better be really really good. Otherwise, you're going to [I]want[/I] the mechanics for each class or different levels of the game to be different enough to make their individual experiences unique. Either that... or you better really go all-in on the narrative and story and improv because THAT'S how you'll make the Fighter and Wizard different and 3rd level and 16th level different in D&D even if the mechanics are exactly the same. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
D&D without Resource Management
Top