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Message: <blockquote data-quote="The Monster" data-source="post: 7989100" data-attributes="member: 69516">This is the key question. Are they just playing for the most pluses, without paying attention to description or narration? Are they just using basic mechanics because they don't see the opportunities for options other than simple hit points? Are they just going for the 'smackdown win' rather than exploring other solutions?I'm put in mind of two examples from my group (most of us have been RPGing since the 1970's). The first time I started running Fantasy Hero (wide-open point-build system), it took multiple sessions before the players really grasped that casters could wear armor - and not because they multiclassed or NPC-cheated! I found it quite amusing, although a couple of them were a bit annoyed that the plate-armor bad guys kept whipping off spells without needing to use scrolls, rings, etc. Once they learned they could do it too, they eagerly embraced the potentials.The other was early in our foray into Fate. One of us was GMing an east-asian-mythos based campaign (Tianxia), and staged a full-blown, individual-contest martial arts tournament. The solo fights, rather than tedious one-man die-rolling, turned out to be an excellent way for us to learn to really work the system, using skills other than Fight to put aspects and wear down the opponent. Everyone got into the act of suggesting possibilities and interpretations of each PC's unique profile.I guess my point is that there's a learning curve, even for bright, experienced gamers, and shifting certain gears can be an issue for some people, in different ways and at different speeds. In our group, the GM is not only responsible for teaching rules, but for helping to ease the transition(arguably that's always part of teaching, but involves a lot more than simply transmitting data!); and really, any tight rules fiddling is done by the GM until/unless the player gets comfortable. Of course, one has to have cooperative players to accomplish this, which may need yet another category of communication...More specific than that, I can't offer without knowing more about what's going on.</blockquote>

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