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<blockquote data-quote="rounser" data-source="post: 4295143" data-attributes="member: 1106">I think I've pinpointed something that's fundamentally changed about the game.&nbsp; In Talisman and Magic: The Gathering, you don't necessarily think about the gameworld implications of a game mechanic like the Prophetess drawing an extra card and choosing between them, or the Llanowar Elves adding a green mana.&nbsp; In D&amp;D, you do.D&amp;D has always had world-affecting abilities: Continual light streetlamps.&nbsp; Sieges and plagues nixed by Create Food &amp; Water and Cure Disease.&nbsp; Paladins detecting alignment on every NPC they meet etc.&nbsp; The handwaving seems to have become a lot harder all of a sudden, though.&nbsp; The abilities and roles seem more unbacked by flavour than ever, and therefore more difficult to justify in terms of suspension of disbelief.&nbsp; Even rules like 1 HP minions that make sense in Hollywood logic seem phoney when you see the naked statistics.In time the goal posts will move and suspension of disbelief will stretch to accomodate all this, because the D&amp;D brand is behind it.&nbsp; Mearls was still wrong about his &quot;rust gets better&quot; rust monster, though, IMO - it's a pity that an entire edition has been brought out based on such game logic.P.S.&nbsp; Although applying M:tG's exception rules system to D&amp;D may make sense superficially, I expect D&amp;D 4E to be much less robust than M:tG, and that the new books people are waiting on to &quot;complete&quot; the game are likely to break it in short order.&nbsp; A broken card in M:tG will still only appear four times in a deck, whereas a broken at-will ability will appear continually in a substantial amount of the campaign.&nbsp; Then again, D&amp;D being broken doesn't seem to have mattered much in the past, except in terms of people eventually getting fed up and wanting a new edition...broken splatbooks (e.g. 1E Unearthed Arcana) or broken entire core classes (e.g. overpowered clerics and &quot;specialty priests&quot;, underpowered theives) are nothing new.&nbsp; Just don't get your hopes up too much for this edition being anything new in that department, I guess.&nbsp; At least 3E's core books were technically complete before breaking the game...We'll see.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="rounser, post: 4295143, member: 1106"] I think I've pinpointed something that's fundamentally changed about the game. In Talisman and Magic: The Gathering, you don't necessarily think about the gameworld implications of a game mechanic like the Prophetess drawing an extra card and choosing between them, or the Llanowar Elves adding a green mana. In D&D, you do. D&D has always had world-affecting abilities: Continual light streetlamps. Sieges and plagues nixed by Create Food & Water and Cure Disease. Paladins detecting alignment on every NPC they meet etc. The handwaving seems to have become a lot harder all of a sudden, though. The abilities and roles seem more unbacked by flavour than ever, and therefore more difficult to justify in terms of suspension of disbelief. Even rules like 1 HP minions that make sense in Hollywood logic seem phoney when you see the naked statistics. In time the goal posts will move and suspension of disbelief will stretch to accomodate all this, because the D&D brand is behind it. Mearls was still wrong about his "rust gets better" rust monster, though, IMO - it's a pity that an entire edition has been brought out based on such game logic. P.S. Although applying M:tG's exception rules system to D&D may make sense superficially, I expect D&D 4E to be much less robust than M:tG, and that the new books people are waiting on to "complete" the game are likely to break it in short order. A broken card in M:tG will still only appear four times in a deck, whereas a broken at-will ability will appear continually in a substantial amount of the campaign. Then again, D&D being broken doesn't seem to have mattered much in the past, except in terms of people eventually getting fed up and wanting a new edition...broken splatbooks (e.g. 1E Unearthed Arcana) or broken entire core classes (e.g. overpowered clerics and "specialty priests", underpowered theives) are nothing new. Just don't get your hopes up too much for this edition being anything new in that department, I guess. At least 3E's core books were technically complete [i]before[/i] breaking the game... We'll see. [/QUOTE]

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