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<blockquote data-quote="rounser" data-source="post: 4295985" data-attributes="member: 1106">Spells and magic items suggest that to a degree, yes.I'd argue that it's being stressed significantly more this iteration, because I doubt we'll see fighters with choices of just &quot;Attack Normally&quot;, &quot;Charge&quot;, &quot;Set Spear&quot; or &quot;Sweep&quot; ever again like we had in 1E, if they even count as exceptions.&nbsp; Today's fighter is a much more...exceptional creature, and if new rules come out for them they will only become moreso. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />&nbsp; (What are the chances of that, cough cough...)Whoa there.&nbsp; I never meant to suggest that 4E uses M:tG rules.&nbsp; I'm just suggesting that the exception model is more pronounced than ever before.&nbsp; WOTC pointed it out as being a defining factor of their new game, and I've never even seen it being mentioned in relation to D&amp;D before (even though it was present in the past to an extent in spells, and gaining in prominence - feats saw more exception creep as of 3E for instance).If you don't think that the new D&amp;D is more exception-based than the old one, then I'm not sure I agree.&nbsp; One of the first impressions I got was &quot;this is very M:tG&quot; when leafing through the PHB and the MM, and I'm far from the only one.&nbsp; Like 3E's crunch/fluff dichotomy was for that edition, I think it's one of the guiding design principles for this edition, given that they explicitly refer to it.And unlike the &quot;video-gamey&quot; canard is used by some others, I don't think comparing something to M:tG is a perjorative.&nbsp; I just don't think that what works well for a card game will necessarily map equally as well to D&amp;D, for similar reasons to what works for a monster may not work for a PC - too much screentime for a particular power or exception that would not be a problem were it on a M:tG card or an NPC monster...or an oldschool D&amp;D spell (because all three of these get much less game presence than an at-will new game PC power).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="rounser, post: 4295985, member: 1106"] Spells and magic items suggest that to a degree, yes. I'd argue that it's being stressed significantly more this iteration, because I doubt we'll see fighters with choices of just "Attack Normally", "Charge", "Set Spear" or "Sweep" ever again like we had in 1E, if they even count as exceptions. Today's fighter is a much more...exceptional creature, and if new rules come out for them they will only become moreso. :) (What are the chances of that, cough cough...) Whoa there. I never meant to suggest that 4E uses M:tG rules. I'm just suggesting that the exception model is more pronounced than ever before. WOTC pointed it out as being a defining factor of their new game, and I've never even seen it being mentioned in relation to D&D before (even though it was present in the past to an extent in spells, and gaining in prominence - feats saw more exception creep as of 3E for instance). If you don't think that the new D&D is more exception-based than the old one, then I'm not sure I agree. One of the first impressions I got was "this is very M:tG" when leafing through the PHB and the MM, and I'm far from the only one. Like 3E's crunch/fluff dichotomy was for that edition, I think it's one of the guiding design principles for this edition, given that they explicitly refer to it. And unlike the "video-gamey" canard is used by some others, I don't think comparing something to M:tG is a perjorative. I just don't think that what works well for a card game will necessarily map equally as well to D&D, for similar reasons to what works for a monster may not work for a PC - too much screentime for a particular power or exception that would not be a problem were it on a M:tG card or an NPC monster...or an oldschool D&D spell (because all three of these get much less game presence than an at-will new game PC power). [/QUOTE]

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