Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Enchanted Trinkets Complete--a hardcover book containing over 500 magic items for your D&D games!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
D&D's abstraction level
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="rounser" data-source="post: 4296142" data-attributes="member: 1106"><p>Scribble - have you ever followed M:tG? M:tG's history tells us a couple of things about exception-based games:</p><p></p><p>1) As the number of exceptions increase, the number of balance problems with broken exceptions inevitably go up. There's less obvious blunders like Black Lotuses when the designers wise up to their game, but you get the odd Necropotence slipping through the net and end up with a Black Summer. </p><p></p><p>2) Exceptions can combine in unexpected ways with broken results, and as the number goes up, it becomes impractical to test them all.</p><p></p><p>Now consider - D&D is new to being treated in this way, and the designers are doubtlessly still learning about the finer points of what they've created. Maybe there's a Black Lotus already in the PHB, staring us in the face, that only hindsight will uncover. Equivalent to the Haste realisation that actions are the real currency of 3E combat. It'll probably be in the guise of something subtle, like shifting monsters or PCs about, but in a year's time will be as "obviously broken" as extra actions are to 3E players.</p><p></p><p>Maybe the PHB's totally fine (unlikely), but I'd suggest that turning D&D into a fully exception-based model ruleset with those exceptions having at-will screentime and default action status means that it's burning a much shorter fuse towards becoming broken than it once was.</p><p></p><p>Does this matter? I'm not sure. D&D's survived being very broken indeed before. It's just an observation about what the 4E paradigm is likely to lead to, if M:tG is any guide.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="rounser, post: 4296142, member: 1106"] Scribble - have you ever followed M:tG? M:tG's history tells us a couple of things about exception-based games: 1) As the number of exceptions increase, the number of balance problems with broken exceptions inevitably go up. There's less obvious blunders like Black Lotuses when the designers wise up to their game, but you get the odd Necropotence slipping through the net and end up with a Black Summer. 2) Exceptions can combine in unexpected ways with broken results, and as the number goes up, it becomes impractical to test them all. Now consider - D&D is new to being treated in this way, and the designers are doubtlessly still learning about the finer points of what they've created. Maybe there's a Black Lotus already in the PHB, staring us in the face, that only hindsight will uncover. Equivalent to the Haste realisation that actions are the real currency of 3E combat. It'll probably be in the guise of something subtle, like shifting monsters or PCs about, but in a year's time will be as "obviously broken" as extra actions are to 3E players. Maybe the PHB's totally fine (unlikely), but I'd suggest that turning D&D into a fully exception-based model ruleset with those exceptions having at-will screentime and default action status means that it's burning a much shorter fuse towards becoming broken than it once was. Does this matter? I'm not sure. D&D's survived being very broken indeed before. It's just an observation about what the 4E paradigm is likely to lead to, if M:tG is any guide. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
D&D's abstraction level
Top