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<blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 8396960" data-attributes="member: 16814">I overall agree with a lot of this, but the point I'm going to make and exception is where you're suggesting that storygames, like PbtA, have a better claim to Free Kriegsspiel.&nbsp; I understand the thrust of this argument, but it fails for much the same reason the Bob Says claim fails -- it's idealizing Free Kriegsspiel and then comparing to the idealized version.Free Kriegsspiel as an ideal is often badly used -- it's an example of the evolution of a specific type of game in a specific context and for a specific purpose.&nbsp; The ways it did what it did cannot be disentangled from these.&nbsp; Straight up in front is that the Umpires generated the same set of outcomes that using the rules did -- young officers learned the art of war before the shells started flying.&nbsp; The outcome wasn't very sensitive to the resolution method because the intent of both methods was to recreate war accurately and serve as a training tool.&nbsp; This is NOT the point of the arguments being made claiming Free Kriegsspiel as a spiritual guide -- these outcomes are going to be very different because they are so sensitive to resolution methods.&nbsp; Here the methods aren't chosen for such a specific and measurable goal as Free Kriegsspiel, but instead to achieve completely different results.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ovinomancer, post: 8396960, member: 16814"] I overall agree with a lot of this, but the point I'm going to make and exception is where you're suggesting that storygames, like PbtA, have a better claim to Free Kriegsspiel. I understand the thrust of this argument, but it fails for much the same reason the Bob Says claim fails -- it's idealizing Free Kriegsspiel and then comparing to the idealized version. Free Kriegsspiel as an ideal is often badly used -- it's an example of the evolution of a specific type of game in a specific context and for a specific purpose. The ways it did what it did cannot be disentangled from these. Straight up in front is that the Umpires generated the same set of outcomes that using the rules did -- young officers learned the art of war before the shells started flying. The outcome wasn't very sensitive to the resolution method because the intent of both methods was to recreate war accurately and serve as a training tool. This is NOT the point of the arguments being made claiming Free Kriegsspiel as a spiritual guide -- these outcomes are going to be very different because they are so sensitive to resolution methods. Here the methods aren't chosen for such a specific and measurable goal as Free Kriegsspiel, but instead to achieve completely different results. [/QUOTE]

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