d20 but non-DnD combat sources?

[Stormborn]

Mutants and Masterminds presented a Damage Save system that seems very appropriate for the setting. We know about WP/VP. Are there any d20/OGL based systems where combat, both the dealing and taking of damage, are significantly different than those presented in the d20 SRD and the d20 Modern SRD?

 

[Selganor]

The Grim&Gritty System used in Babylon 5 (and also printed in the Ultimate Game Designers Compendium) wouldn't count?

BTW: WP/VP are in Unearthed Arcana and therefore now OGC

 

[Ranger REG]

T20: The Traveller's Handbook have Stamina/Lifeblood. Similar to VP/WP, but lethal damage affects both stats, nonlethal damage affects just Stamina.

 

[Iron_Chef]

The Conan RPG is OGL and has armor as damage reduction, every weapon with an armor piercing value, and damage can be avoided with dodge and parry rolls. Weapons significantly do more damage as well.

 

[AscentStudios]

BTW: WP/VP are in Unearthed Arcana and therefore now OGC

Uh, has it been added to the SRD? Nothing is OGC just because it is in a WotC book (quite the contrary). I would be surprised if WP/VP is open now, as Wizards has, in the past, been pretty protective of it.

 

[Stormborn]

Uh, has it been added to the SRD? Nothing is OGC just because it is in a WotC book (quite the contrary). I would be surprised if WP/VP is open now, as Wizards has, in the past, been pretty protective of it.

Actually, it is stated in several places, including the book itself, that it is almost entirelly OGC, the exception being "product identity" stuff. Check out the threads in General RPG Discussion.

Now, back to the subject at hand.

What I am realy looking for is a system that handles attacks and damage COMPLETLY differently. BAB, AC, HP, and the works.

More than Grim n Gritty, more that WP/VP, I'm going to have to check out the Conan material mentioned previously (thanks IC) for the counter rolls to attacks.

Basically I am wondering if you can alter the combat mechanic of d20 and keep the attributes, skills, saves, feats, and class system.

 

[Iron_Chef]

More than Grim n Gritty, more that WP/VP, I'm going to have to check out the Conan material mentioned previously (thanks IC) for the counter rolls to attacks.

Basically I am wondering if you can alter the combat mechanic of d20 and keep the attributes, skills, saves, feats, and class system.

Conan originally had Dodge and Parry rolls oppose attack rolls in combat (roll 1d20 when hit, add your Dodge or Parry bonus, then equal or beat your attacker's roll). They streamlined this in the final version (making both Dodge and Parry flat ACs--you choose to use whichever you're better at, except in certain situations), but the option to use it as originally written (opposed rolls as in the Palladium FRPG) has been stated by Mongoose over at their Conan forum. Switching between versions (playtest or published) is simple as pie, to the taste of the gaming group. Now that, I like!

Armor as DR makes sense, though helms adding to DR is rather abstract. A variant of this (helms adding their bonus to DV to prevent Crits) is being discussed by the fans at the Mongoose Conan forum. This makes armor, shields and helms each help defend differently. DR, parry bonus, or critical hit reducer, respectively).

In my experience (1 session), Conan combat takes about as long as D&D, sometimes less, sometimes more, and is much scarier and lethal (meaning fun).

 

[RFisher]

What I am realy looking for is a system that handles attacks and damage COMPLETLY differently. BAB, AC, HP, and the works.

I haven't seen a d20 or SRD based commercial product that goes so far.

I've toyed with replacing BAB & AC with a skill or skills and replacing HD/level with hp=Con. I've also toyed with tying damage to the margin of success (how high over the target number you rolled). As I've only had the chance to GM two d20 campaigns (both D&D), I haven't had a chance to playtest any of those ideas, though.

 

[Iron_Chef]

I haven't seen a d20 or SRD based commercial product that goes so far.

I've toyed with replacing BAB & AC with a skill or skills and replacing HD/level with hp=Con. I've also toyed with tying damage to the margin of success (how high over the target number you rolled). As I've only had the chance to GM two d20 campaigns (both D&D), I haven't had a chance to playtest any of those ideas, though.

I've seen this discussed: HP = Con + Str mod + Toughness feat. To keep HP low, Toughness should provide +1 hp/level (up to 10th level in Conan) and can only be taken once.

 

[Krieg]

What I am realy looking for is a system that handles attacks and damage COMPLETLY differently. BAB, AC, HP, and the works.

From Guardian of Order's Anime SRD:

Unlike most other d20 System games, Anime d20 uses combat Skills in addition to combat Feats.

Offensive combat Skills are treated exactly like Skills for any other action — they serve as a bonus to a character’s dice roll.

Defensive combat Skills are applied to the character’s defence roll when defending in an appropriate situation.

For example, a character with Defence Combat Mastery at Rank 2, a Dexterity of 11, and Melee Defence (Sword) at Rank 3 is wielding a sword and attacked by an opponent in melee combat. His Armour Class is normally 2 (+0 Dex modifier and +2 from the Defence Combat Mastery). When defending with his sword, he gains a +4 bonus to his defence roll (+3 for the Melee Defence Skill Rank, and +1 for the Sword Specialisation), but only against melee or unarmed attacks. If another character attacks him with a gun, thus initiating a ranged combat attack, he makes a defence roll without a bonus since he does not have the Ranged Defence Skill.

Not quite the radical departure you are looking for, but I thought it worth mentioning.

It wouldn't be that hard to take the next step and make combat completely skill based.