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<blockquote data-quote="WizarDru" data-source="post: 430619" data-attributes="member: 151">Point taken.&nbsp; You're correct, Geoffery did say 'a number of 3e fans' not everyone...I rather inferred that, probably from more of a 'knee-jerk' reaction than anything else.&nbsp;&nbsp; It seems, IMHO, that Geoffrey was implying that because certain vocal fans were complaining about those particular four items (and again, I've only seen discussion on three of them) that they must be right, and CoC was a preview of where D&amp;D was going.&nbsp; That, and the fact that we've seen this topic several times, made me jump to the conclusion of where I thought he was headed.&nbsp; Mea culpa.Oh, and please...just one 'D' in my name. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />But they're still classes, regardless of how similar and unflavored they may be, and they have specific class-dependent benefits, again regardless of how similar in nature they are.&nbsp; I wouldn't argue that CoC is classless, though I would readily agree that it's virtually there.&nbsp; In the context of this discussion, I thought that should be clarified, since it was left unchallenged.&nbsp; I'm not arguing that it's good or bad.I would argue that D&amp;D without classes is no longer what I consider D&amp;D.&nbsp; As someone who's played GURPS for over fifteen years, I certainly don't have a problem with that...I just wouldn't label it D&amp;D any longer. YMMV.So d20 CoC is class-less, but still level dependent.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="WizarDru, post: 430619, member: 151"] Point taken. You're correct, Geoffery did say 'a number of 3e fans' not everyone...I rather inferred that, probably from more of a 'knee-jerk' reaction than anything else. It seems, IMHO, that Geoffrey was implying that because certain vocal fans were complaining about those particular four items (and again, I've only seen discussion on three of them) that they must be right, and CoC was a preview of where D&D was going. That, and the fact that we've seen this topic several times, made me jump to the conclusion of where I thought he was headed. Mea culpa. Oh, and please...just one 'D' in my name. :) [b][/b] But they're still classes, regardless of how similar and unflavored they may be, and they have specific class-dependent benefits, again regardless of how similar in nature they are. I wouldn't argue that CoC is classless, though I would readily agree that it's virtually there. In the context of this discussion, I thought that should be clarified, since it was left unchallenged. I'm not arguing that it's good or bad. I would argue that D&D without classes is no longer what I consider D&D. As someone who's played GURPS for over fifteen years, I certainly don't have a problem with that...I just wouldn't label it D&D any longer. YMMV. So d20 CoC is class-less, but still level dependent. [/QUOTE]

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