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Message: <blockquote data-quote="evildmguy" data-source="post: 1455488" data-attributes="member: 6092">My own coppers worthGreetings!I admit it.  After 23 years of playing DND, I "left" it to play another game.  (Alternity - in fact, a Fantasy version of Alternity.)  I have had problems for years with the wargaming roots of DND (d20).  I specifically don't like levels, classes, "upping the numbers" and hit points.  I also don't like the magic system but that isn't based on wargaming.  Having said that, d20 can be a fun game.  Like ANY game, it isn't the "end all, be all" of RPGs, imo.  Levels, for example, can serve as a way to show progress.  It is a quick and easy way for a player to see progress in their character.  For many players, that is enough to keep them playing.  And if they are having fun with it, that's great!  That, to me, is the point.  However, d20 can also be a source of frustration, again, as can ANY game.  The trick is not letting the rules get in the way of fun.  d20, though, has so many rules on so many different areas that it can be tricky for the GM to decide which to drop or not because of how they effect other aspects of the game.  Again, I think this goes back to its wargaming roots that there are so many rules.  THAT ISN'T BAD.  It also isn't everyone's preferred gaming style.  After a long hiatus, I again DMed this past weekend for a group of friends.  For the most part it was fun.  I set the character levels, told the group not to worry about xp or leveling, and concentrated on telling an interesting story.  Again, for the most part it worked.  At the same time, it failed for several players.  One player, in trying to play an effective character (and getting a lot of crap from the group over the years) spent hours at the game table reading spells so that he would be prepared to play his cleric.  Even having played for over twenty years, this player felt this need, in part due to the new version but also because of how the spell system works.  There is a complexity to the spells (each spell does one or two things and that is it.  Therefore, there are hundreds of spells to cover the most common situations an adventurer might encounter.) that makes it difficult to learn and remember them all.  That style is a fine style for people who want it.  I am not one of those people.  I don't prefer having specialized spells for each situation.  Another player, in trying to play a pacifist monk, had the base rules work against him.  (We played 3.0, not 3.5 and I don't know if that would have made a difference.)  He wanted to do subdual damage not to kill the enemies, instead of "real" hit point damage.  I think, by the rules, I could have penalized him in several places, such as his need to declare subdual damage for every attack, as well as potentially having some penalties for attacking in a non lethal way.  I didn't do that, I wanted him to have fun.  I am not sure the rules support what I did, though.  Yes, it is my perogative to change what I want.  Every time I have to change the rules, it tells me the d20 rules are not for me.  And that's why I don't play it anymore, except on a few occassions with my old group.  It is more the excuse we use to get together and see each other.  Again, I think d20 is a valid system.  There are a lot of good things about it.  In fact, I think the Stargate d20 system, using Spycraft, in what I have read is an excellent system!  I would certainly give this a chance as d20.  I think d20 SW is pretty good as well and wouldn't mind playing that as well, outside of good computer games like KOTOR.  All I am saying is that DND (d20) isn't for me.  It is for this reason that I find it too bad that d20 has become popular because for as many casual players that d20 has attracted, and I think that's great to see our hobby expanding, I am sure it has turned off people as well.  I am equally sure, though, that the latest version turns off less people in terms of introducing new people to an RPG.  And, again, that's good news for all of us!  Good discussion!  Thanks!edg</blockquote>

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