Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="evildmguy" data-source="post: 1455939" data-attributes="member: 6092">Thanks for the replies!  Okay, first of all, for my own clarification.  Can I say that OGL = d20 but d20 != OGL?  I ask because I thought that CoC was OGL, not d20, the same as Mutants and Masterminds, because both of them had rules on character creation, which isn't allowed under d20.  And don't those have different rules?Second, does DND = d20?  If so, where does the SRD fit?  I mean, the SRD does list spells, so if DND = d20, doesn't that mean that the spells are d20?  Even if they don't have to be included, aren't they a part of it?  I could be wrong on these points, IANAL, nor do I claim to understand OGL or d20 licensing.  As for vampire, well, I don't know it well.  I thought that diablerie only lowered effective generation, nothing else.  That's all I have ever seen it described as doing.  I might have to look more, not that it matters.  Again, the following points are in relation to me, no one else.  CoC was a very good game.  They did a good job getting rid of classes and I liked it for that.  (I actually like what d20 Modern did, especially in terms of MDT.  I would consider using d20 Modern instead of DND for a Fantasy game, to also decrease the amount of magic.)  However, for me, CoC still has hit points, which I don't prefer.  I know that they are less and combat can still be deadly quick.  I don't like the fact that the character is okay up until 0 hit points as far as ability to fight, use skills, etc.  Rules - Well, this is going to be subjective.  And unfair.  Having played DND, I know the rules and so learning a few more here and there as new rule books came out was not a big deal.  However, I had a heck of a time explaining 2E to my wife, a non gamer who agreed to play.  Same for some friends who agreed to play.  3E simplified die rolls and characters, imo, to a very nice degree.  No more explaining 5 saving throw categories!  And they make more sense, imo!  I also think there are more rules with regards to combat than were mentioned, such as AoO, grapple, modifiers, etc. but again, perhaps that isn't d20.  My point here is that trying to explain what there was in d20 to new, very casual players, was still a lot.  Spells - Again, I don't know if they are d20 or DND.  It seems to me that they are d20 because they can be used and fit in with any d20 game.  Also, they are in the SRD but I might not understand the SRD, as I said.  In any case, besides the Vancian system, which I haven't liked for a long time, I prefer mana point systems, I don't like the "right spell for the right job".  I have yet to see a more free form system in d20, which would allow more creativity and less need for more spells in every new d20 book.  Please, don't take this the wrong way.  As a DM of newbie players, I do everything I can to help them.  I am fine with them explaining what they want to do and then I will translate that for them into game terms.  However, when the players never want to learn the spells because it is too much, and I agree, then what happens is I am always translating things into game terms.  At that point, it feels like me versus me!  Therefore, at that point, that's when I realized that d20/DND wasn't the best ruleset for me.  I think it can and does work in certain areas but things such as class, level, leveling, hit points, and the spells have always irked me in all my years of gaming.  (Well, maybe not the first two or three . . . <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />)  btw, I didn't penalize the player of the monk.  I gave him crap that he didn't say it, but I knew it was exactly in line with his character.  My point, though, was that if it is in the rules, it was lost where it said that the character concept is more important than the rules.  And I think it does say that to do subdual damage with an attack must be declared for every attack.  Again, that is what a DM is for, to make those calls.  However, I really respect games like Buffy and White Wolf for saying that in the rules, usually more than once, that the character concept is the most important part.  Again, I probably appear to be d20 bashing but I am not.  It is a fine system.  It is not the end all be all system for me.  I don't know that any system, core rules, is such a system for me.  I tend to tinker, though, and usually have some house rules.  That's all!  Thanks for the discussion!  Have a good one!edg</blockquote>

Verification