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Message: <blockquote data-quote="woodelf" data-source="post: 1463558" data-attributes="member: 10201">Actually, i think a bigger factor was that i think WWGS and the distributors killed the GenCon release. Used to be, seemed like everyone released their stuff at GenCon, bending production schedules by a couple months either way to do so. Then WWGS had two new games in a row released at GenCon that were popularly believed to have been rushed something fierce to get them out in time, and both of which had 2nd editions not much more than a year later--despite WWGS claiming they'd ironed out the basic system elements, and wouldn't be doing such fast turn-around times for new editions of their games (and that was in response to the complaints of only 2 years between W:tA 1 and W:tA 2). I noticed that the year of the 2nd putatively-rushed WoD core book release was pretty much the last year that any middling-to-big game company officially described a game as a GenCon release, for quite a few years. Ithink it's not just coincidence, but because this sorta poisoned the pot for GenCon releases, as consumers got wary of them, afraid that the splash of a GenCon release would persuade the company to skimp on editing, or whatever, to make the release. New games are still released at GenCon, but the companies don't seem to describe them that way any more--they're just "August releases", and GenCon may or may not be their first appearance.  The distribution problem was that, for a while there, a game released at GenCon wouldn't show up in retailers 'til maybe 6-8 weeks after GenCon. Which sorta pissed off retailers. So now most companies release their game whenever it gets done, with GenCon being no more of a target date than any other. Lots of them release it a few weeks before GenCon, so they've got a "new" game for the con, but it's already in stores. The only ones who bother with GenCon releases, generally, seem to be the really-small companies, who need every boost they can get--and good sales at GenCon, plus word-of-mouth, can be that boost. But it's not because we've thought of everything--it's because almost all RPGs are basically siblings, mechanically. To use a film analogy again, all RPGs are action movies. Of course, once you've seen enough action movies, they all start to seem derivative. But that's not an indictment of movies, or an argument for just sticking to John Woo movies, since the rest are all just imitators anyway. It's an argument for maybe trying a comedy, or a period drama, or a pretentious art film. In RPGs, you check out something that actually *is* different, like My Life with Master, or Everway, or Story Engine, or Psychosis. If you're not giving the Horizon line from FFG a look, you're really missing out. Grimm and Virtual are genius, and i've heard good things about Redline--dunno about the latest sixguns-n-sorcery one. [btw, on Monte Cook and AU: it actually took a lot of persuading, in the form of his design diary and other people talking about it, to get me to check out Arcana Unearthed--and i'm glad i did, because i love it--because i'd been following his stuff since D&D3E and didn't care for any of it: a few good ideas, here and there, buried under a pile of not-interesting. IMHO, of course.] That's exactly what i'm talking about it: games like OtE that are actually mechanically new. Games where the "1 or 2 core ideas" *are* a new system, or a significant chunk of one. The games that used to be whole new games, but didn't really need to be, were those where the new ideas *weren't* core elements, so the authors ended up just reinventing a lot of pretty basic mechanical elements, like how attributes and skills work, or whatever. And my point is i want to see more games like OtE and Hero Wars and Everway and Epiphany: games that *can't* be done as a D20 System game, or, ideally, a derivative of any existing RPG. I agree: i don't need "just another system"--i want RPGs that make me say "cool, i never thought of that", in both the setting and teh system.It's not that simple. How many people in Iowa City do you think are going to discover RPGs in the next few years? PDF/online sales aren't any good for growing the hobby, because they have no exposure--you only find them if you're looking for them, and you only go looking for them if you are already interested in them.  I find this comment interesting. There are only 3 game systems i recall ever hearing someone refer to being "burned out" on: D20 System, Storyteller, and AD&D. I'm not sure what that means. Maybe just that those are some of the very few systems that have significant numbers of one-system players. But maybe it's something about the systems? [and, maybe it's just something about the RPers i've known.]</blockquote>

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