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Message: <blockquote data-quote="woodelf" data-source="post: 1464428" data-attributes="member: 10201">Yep. Sorry--i did that a bit. I definitely tangented a bit. (And i *do* think you might prefer a different system, based on what you've said, but that *is* irrelevant to this discussion.)It's the "demonstrably" that i'm questioning. You claim that the reason system-specific statblocks have value, and thus the product has more value, is because of the effort to come up with those statblocks yourself. My counter to this is two-fold. First, this is not inherently the case--it is only if you're using a complex system that statting up a character/object/whatever requires much effort. So D20 System, by being complex, actually makes the necessity of system compatibility greater, rather than supporting a necessity that was always there. Second, we're still at a "your word vs. mine" point on the question of just how much effort is actually required. I still contend that my personal experience is that the amount of effort to use a monster from (1) the Monsternomicon, (2) S. Peterson's Guide to Creatures of the Dreamlands, and (3) Goblins (by Brian Froud), in my D&D3E game is essentially equal. In the first case i'll almost certainly have to adjust the stats some (probably on the fly, as i'm running the encounter), and maybe the description/background to make it fit my setting. In the 2nd and 3rd cases, i'll have to convert/invent the stats (probably on the fly, as i'm running the encounter), and maybe the description/background to make it fit my setting. And, IME, the actual effort in both cases will be about the same. The presence of stats, even for a system i'm using, often doesn't appreciably decrease the effort needed to fit it into the game i'm running. This, of course, may say more about our relative styles of running games than it does about anything else--i fully accept that this is not true for you. But that's not the same as accepting that it's not true for all gamers, or that it couldn't be made true.Let my put forth one more tidbit that may alter things a bit, since there is no resolution, and likely no persuasion, when all we have is our respective personal experiences. I used to agree with you. There was a time when i was very concerned about "balanced" challenges, and statting up monsters ahead of time, and so on. At that point, i did see grabbing creatures from another game system as an obstacle. Then, at some point, i changed my mind. What changed was not my ability to translate, or my knowledge of other systems, just my belief on the matter. When i believed i had to convert monsters exactly, and have "fair" stats up front, and all that, itwas true. When i believed that i could just make a rough conversion and run with it and change things on the fly if necessary, it was true. Which gets back to the "myth" (or lack thereof) thing. More and more, i realized that i didn't use half the stats for a monster anyway (even when it was intended for the system i was running), so what did it matter if those stats were "compatible"?I agree about the continuum idea. But, IMHO, system compatibility has a minimal impact on the usefulness. Moreover, while i'm sure there's a theoretical 100%-useful statblock, probably the best i've ever encountered is on the order of 67% (and that's for using a statblock in the intended system--say, an AD&D2 monster in an AD&D2 game). Likewise, i don't think i've ever seen an actual statblock that was less than, oh, say, 25% useful (i could extract rough figures but for not quite the "right" stats). Again, probably partly an issue of playstyle. I'm just not convinced it's an inherent, rather than learned, playstyle issue. Not only have i changed over the years, i've seen lots of other GMs change their playstyle radically.Fair enough. I see you as perfect evidence of it: you're even aware that you don't "need" compatible statblocks, and yet you prefer them. I think this is because you've been "trained" by complex balance-obssessed systems to think this way. You obviously don't--and who am i to tell you what you're thinking? If i can't persuade you, so be it.</blockquote>

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