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General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
d20 Math: AC, To Hit, and Diminishing Returns
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<blockquote data-quote="MadLordOfMilk" data-source="post: 4649379" data-attributes="member: 77691"><p>@MichaelSomething: well, damage-wise, it does mean you need to keep increasing your damage along with your +hit. However, <em>for the most part</em> you shouldn't get too far into the extremes on either end of the table, given how 4e pushes for a general ~50% hit rate. Still try to max hit rate as much as possible of course (as it only gets lower as you level up), especially because powers have effects outside of damage. Given how it's kind of a losing battle the higher in level you get, it shouldn't really reach that "not nearly as useful" point way up there in high hit rates. However, don't make +hit your only source of damage boosts... just make sure to keep raising both.</p><p></p><p>For a relative damage gain, do (Final Hit% / Initial Hit%), so going from 5% to 20% hit rate is 20%/5% = 4x damage, whereas from 50% to 55% is 55%/50% = 1.1x damage, or a 10% increase. The values in the table are more for putting survivability at various hit rates into perspective, and they can certainly be used for calculating how LONG something will live, but for straight damage relation go with what I just mentioned.</p><p>You go from living 10x as long as someone who gets hit every time to 20x as long. It IS a 1000% <em>net</em> EHP gain, but a 100% <em>relative</em> gain. The former makes the point better IMHO, and lets one see exactly how much of a gap there is in survivability from 100% hit rate to 50% to whatever, but both are worth noting and useful.</p><p></p><p>When figuring out how much a character's relative gain is, of course you'd have to do 2000%/1000% = 2x survival duration. Unfortunately, there is only so much one can put on one table... I had to leave *some* calculations to people.</p><p></p><p>You're basically arguing about where the baseline is. Of course I could make 20 copies of the table with the baseline at each respective point... but it'd be the same scaling rate regardless. Scaling to getting hit 100% of the time is an easy-to-understand reference point, and IMHO makes understanding the concept of "effective hp" (or, in other words, how long you're going to live) much easier to relate to the actual numbers. YMMV.</p><p></p><p>Plus, all of this gets down to jumping between the relative gains and the literal values and linearity and non-linearity and... blech. It wasn't meant to be a comprehensive guide on every factor of damage <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f631.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":eek:" title="Eek! :eek:" data-smilie="9"data-shortname=":eek:" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="MadLordOfMilk, post: 4649379, member: 77691"] @MichaelSomething: well, damage-wise, it does mean you need to keep increasing your damage along with your +hit. However, [I]for the most part[/I] you shouldn't get too far into the extremes on either end of the table, given how 4e pushes for a general ~50% hit rate. Still try to max hit rate as much as possible of course (as it only gets lower as you level up), especially because powers have effects outside of damage. Given how it's kind of a losing battle the higher in level you get, it shouldn't really reach that "not nearly as useful" point way up there in high hit rates. However, don't make +hit your only source of damage boosts... just make sure to keep raising both. For a relative damage gain, do (Final Hit% / Initial Hit%), so going from 5% to 20% hit rate is 20%/5% = 4x damage, whereas from 50% to 55% is 55%/50% = 1.1x damage, or a 10% increase. The values in the table are more for putting survivability at various hit rates into perspective, and they can certainly be used for calculating how LONG something will live, but for straight damage relation go with what I just mentioned. You go from living 10x as long as someone who gets hit every time to 20x as long. It IS a 1000% [I]net[/I] EHP gain, but a 100% [I]relative[/I] gain. The former makes the point better IMHO, and lets one see exactly how much of a gap there is in survivability from 100% hit rate to 50% to whatever, but both are worth noting and useful. When figuring out how much a character's relative gain is, of course you'd have to do 2000%/1000% = 2x survival duration. Unfortunately, there is only so much one can put on one table... I had to leave *some* calculations to people. You're basically arguing about where the baseline is. Of course I could make 20 copies of the table with the baseline at each respective point... but it'd be the same scaling rate regardless. Scaling to getting hit 100% of the time is an easy-to-understand reference point, and IMHO makes understanding the concept of "effective hp" (or, in other words, how long you're going to live) much easier to relate to the actual numbers. YMMV. Plus, all of this gets down to jumping between the relative gains and the literal values and linearity and non-linearity and... blech. It wasn't meant to be a comprehensive guide on every factor of damage :eek: [/QUOTE]
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