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<blockquote data-quote="takyris" data-source="post: 831027" data-attributes="member: 5171">denzoner,Sorry for being touchy.&nbsp; I was frustrated at seeing an official response that flatly contradicted the official response that I got, as I saw it.Because firearm butts are listed as simple weapons, I don't believe you should add&nbsp;&nbsp; the improvised weapon penalty for them.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; I think that if you decided to do so, you wouldn't get too many complaints, since few people will argue that a rifle butt makes a better club than a baseball bat -- the weight on the rifle butt is sufficient to hurt things, but the balance isn't geared toward using it that way.&nbsp; I suppose that a rifle butt wouldn't work quite as well for melee purposes as a baseball bat would, but it would work better than, say, a boom box.&nbsp; If you wanted to go for more realism, you could assign a -2 penalty instead of the regular -4 (and let infiltrators negate the -2 penalty just as they negate the -4 penalty for normal improvised weapons), but I think that would overcomplicate things.And anyway, according to the basic rules, they're listed as Simple weapons.Bayonets are indeed in the game.&nbsp; A rifle with a bayonet does 1d4/1d6 damage and is considered an archaic weapon -- 1d4 for the bayonet, 1d6 for the rifle butt.&nbsp; You can use it as a double weapon.&nbsp; If you take the bayonet off the rifle and use it on its own, it's a simple weapon that does 1d4, 19-20 crit.&nbsp; Apparently the better crit range is because you can use it with more finesse?&nbsp; In any event, my interpretations aside, that's the text from the book exactly as written:Knife (the text of which uses an unattached bayonet as an example) does 1d4, 19-20 crit.Bayonet: 1d4 for the blade, 1d6 for the butt, usable as a double weapon with all appropriate penalties.&nbsp; Crit 20 in both cases.It does lead to the question of why anyone would use a bayonet when the rifle butt itself does more damage, but I dunno... maybe historically, the butt of the rifle was more useful than the blade.-Tacky</blockquote>

[QUOTE="takyris, post: 831027, member: 5171"] denzoner, Sorry for being touchy. I was frustrated at seeing an official response that flatly contradicted the official response that I got, as I saw it. Because firearm butts are listed as simple weapons, I don't believe you should add the improvised weapon penalty for them. I think that if you decided to do so, you wouldn't get too many complaints, since few people will argue that a rifle butt makes a better club than a baseball bat -- the weight on the rifle butt is sufficient to hurt things, but the balance isn't geared toward using it that way. I suppose that a rifle butt wouldn't work quite as well for melee purposes as a baseball bat would, but it would work better than, say, a boom box. If you wanted to go for more realism, you could assign a -2 penalty instead of the regular -4 (and let infiltrators negate the -2 penalty just as they negate the -4 penalty for normal improvised weapons), but I think that would overcomplicate things. And anyway, according to the basic rules, they're listed as Simple weapons. Bayonets are indeed in the game. A rifle with a bayonet does 1d4/1d6 damage and is considered an archaic weapon -- 1d4 for the bayonet, 1d6 for the rifle butt. You can use it as a double weapon. If you take the bayonet off the rifle and use it on its own, it's a simple weapon that does 1d4, 19-20 crit. Apparently the better crit range is because you can use it with more finesse? In any event, my interpretations aside, that's the text from the book exactly as written: Knife (the text of which uses an unattached bayonet as an example) does 1d4, 19-20 crit. Bayonet: 1d4 for the blade, 1d6 for the butt, usable as a double weapon with all appropriate penalties. Crit 20 in both cases. It does lead to the question of why anyone would use a bayonet when the rifle butt itself does more damage, but I dunno... maybe historically, the butt of the rifle was more useful than the blade. -Tacky [/QUOTE]

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