[d20 Modern] Rants

[Hopping Vampire]

there are just a few things in the game that irk me. i know i can change the rule, but i want to know someone elses opinion about it.

1. burst fire. this is all wrong from a realistic standpoint. in real life
a burst fire weapon has a selector switch which is set for 3 rounds (not five). there are rare exeptions to this (the UMP .45 smg for example has a 3 and 4 round select.). in my campaign i use the cover fire rules presented in dragonstar for full auto and burst fire. these are the only ones from my standpoint that make sense.

2. combat throw. a throw is very much so different that a trip attempt. throw attempts should use a different ruling altogether.
(i use ken s. hoods d20 skills and feats MA system for martial arts)

3.sniping. i seperate rule should be used for snipers also. they should get increased threat range or something.

am i totally unfounded on this or what?

 

[DanMcS]

The burst thing doesn't sit right. I'd say use the feat to allow controlled bursts with full-auto weapons, which get the -4 attack penatly, +2 dice damage. A weapon with the 3 round burst setting can be used this way automatically, without the feat.

I don't know that I've ever read the trip rules before. Touch attack to grab, opposed ability check, modified for size, seems to work all right, no problems there.

Sniping gets more bonuses, nope. Standard d20 rules assume you're always going for the best shot you can get, same as a sniper would be. If your ssniper has a scope (range x 1.5), far shot (range x 1.5), plus either the soldier's or gunslinger's bonus weapon abilities, that sufficiently simulates the sniper of legend for me.

 

[DM_Matt]

Ya, burrst fire has problems...but i think the high wis requirement is the weirdest. It produces teams of uninsightful, uncommunicative commandos who happen to be incredably wise.

 

[BiggusGeekus@Work]

Ya, burrst fire has problems...but i think the high wis requirement is the weirdest. It produces teams of uninsightful, uncommunicative commandos who happen to be incredably wise.

We interpreted this to mean the commandos had to retain a certain ammount of calm under pressure to control bursts rather than let it all fly.

 

[Bagpuss]

We interpreted this to mean the commandos had to retain a certain ammount of calm under pressure to control bursts rather than let it all fly.

Hmm, unfortunately you still need the Wis 13 and Feat requirements when the firearms very design controls the burst for you.

Anyway I believe generally burst fire is used tactically to increase the likely hood of at least one round hiting the target, not to improve damage, although this can happen.

Automatic fire is usually used to suppress an area to keep the enemies heads down. So the area attack effect in D20 Modern is sort of okay, but it should effect the area for a full round and anyone entering that area during the round must make a save IMHO.


I'm thinking of house ruling this to something like the following...

Burst fire - gives a flat +1 to the attack roll in the first range increment. +0 in the second and an -2 to for each range after that ie: +1/+0/-2/-4/-6. It also improves the Threat range to 19-20. Anyone can use it with a weapon equipped with a burst fire setting.

The Burst Fire Feat.
Improves the bonus/penalties to the attack roll by +2, ie: +3/+2/+0/-2/-4, the threat range becomes 18-20. Also burst fire can now be done with any automatic weapon, but if the weapon doesn't have a burst setting it uses 5 rounds.

I'll be altering automatic fire to repressent suppressive fire and the target CONE will be a danger area for a full-round. It will require a full-round action to pull off. The difficulty for save is 5 + the number of rounds fired. But the damage is only ever the effect of one round hitting.

These are just some ideas, need thinking through and play testing.

 

[Henry]

Hmm, unfortunately you still need the Wis 13 and Feat requirements when the firearms very design controls the burst for you.

I myself have never fired a burst-fire weapon, but I'll take the words of military personnel who tell me that a burst fire weapon is NOT controlled, and no gun design can totally allow that (although good design helps). One of the reasons for the three-round burst is that it keeps soldiers from wasting ammo, because most autofire rifles (even the small caliber ones) get rapidly out of control when autofiring more than a few shots.

When autofiring, you ensure that at least ONE bullet will hit a target in an area, but I've also been told by skilled shooters that most of the time, a skilled semi-auto shootist will take down an autofiring combatant at range. Autofire is I've been told most effective at close range.

Remember, the burst fire feat doesn't let you fire at groups more effectively, it lets you do more damage to ONE target, effectively putting more bullets into a single target than spreading them around. Speading the bullets around is easy to do, since it fires in a 10 x 10 array anyway. Having Burst Fire as a separate feat I agree with, as I do having another feat to autofire without a -4 in the first place. Anyone who has never had practice autofiring consistently is going to suck when hitting a specific target, unless your caliber and round power is quite small.

Not to say the system is flawless: I don't see the need for a separate feat for "walking the burst", and I also don't see the need for the Wisdom 13 adjustment, although the "cool under fire" is a plausible answer.

 

[danzig138]

1. burst fire. this is all wrong from a realistic standpoint. in real life
a burst fire weapon has a selector switch which is set for 3 rounds (not five). there are rare exeptions to this (the UMP .45 smg for example has a 3 and 4 round select.). in my campaign i use the cover fire rules presented in dragonstar for full auto and burst fire. these are the only ones from my standpoint that make sense.

Well, you are kind of correct. I don't know how this applies to the game, since I don't have the manual handy, but IRL, there is a difference between firing a 3RB with a weapon such as the M-16 A2, and firing a short burst with an automatic weapon. The 3RB feature is designed to reduce ammo expenditure and increase hit probability. But there are many weapons that are not equipped with the 3RB feature, and for these, you have to leanr how to fire short controlled bursts. I would imagine that those weapons were probably in mind whe the Burst Fire feat was developed. As for the Wisdom requirement, I can't say why, but it makes sense to me. Without checking the rules, can you fire a less controlled burst without it? If so, then it makes great sense. if not...

2. combat throw. a throw is very much so different that a trip attempt. throw attempts should use a different ruling altogether.
(i use ken s. hoods d20 skills and feats MA system for martial arts)

I disagree that a throw and a trip should use different mechanics when the same ones work well enough. I mean, there is a world of difference between a properly executed punch and a properly executed kick, but I don't want to devise different mechanics to handle them. That leads down the road to too much detail, because then you end up with different mechanics for side-skicks, thrust kicks, snap kicks, hook punches, short jabs, and so forth. I don't much care for Hood's MA rules, although I think with some cutting down and streamlining, they could work really well, but I think that is just a matter of the amount of detail you desire, and as I get older, I seem to desire less and less

3.sniping. i seperate rule should be used for snipers also. they should get increased threat range or something.
am i totally unfounded on this or what?

I don't think it's a bad idea to provide maybe some additional feats for sniping. Palladium's Ninjas and Superspies had a martial art power for snipers that was neat, "One Shot, One Hit, One Kill" or somethng like that, where, with concentrated aiming and focus, you received an additional bonus to strike.
P.S. Ninjas and Superspies has about the amount of detail I like for Martial Arts, with maybe a touch too much. That's why I started the Palladium Martial Arts Netbook. Then I quit playing PB's games.

 

[Trainz]

I really like the Automatic weapons rules as is so far. The one thing that didn't feel quite right (as someone else said) was the 13 Wis req.

The guy IMC that will need to take that feat had 12 Wis. Plus he really rolled poorly for his stats COMPARED to the rest of the group.

So I bumped his Wis one point to 13. Anyways this doesn't increase skill checks. When I told him that I bumped one of his stats 1 point he said "Cool Thanks ! Which One ?" and I reply "Wis..."