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Message: <blockquote data-quote="malladin" data-source="post: 480693" data-attributes="member: 8230">Okay, so there are some ideas about how you can do 'low' given the existing d20 framework, but what I want to know is whether people are truely satisfied by this or if, like me, people don't use d20 for these types of games (perhaps I'm asking this on the wrong site, but I want to know what the d20 community thinks).My main problem with d20 for these types of campaigns is the scale of character available to you. If you consider the full range of ability score bonuses, skill ranks and dice rolls possible you have a total effective probability range of between about -3 and about +50 (and thats before you start thinking about epic level).  In my mind the key to a successful 'low' or 'dark' rpg is that the players are below typically weaker than their opponents and must use a full range of abilities to meet the challenges of the adventure.  To get the atmosphere of such a game right you need to (IMO) have monsters (etc) that will always kill the characters in a straight fight, but to allow the characters the ability to use their skills, etc to level out the playing field.  As such the PCs need to be able to rely on their abilities an know that they are not going to be let down at crucial moments. The 'high' games of d20 system, on the other hand (again, IMO), use this randomness to emphasise the drama and excitement amongst the players - all characters need to know that at any moment they might just shoot a duff shot or get caught unawares.  This works for these games, because at the end of the day the threat is never really that great, and to die dramatically is often as good an ending for a character as any.I think that therefore dropping the dice roll down to, say, a d6 and having total roll modifiers between 1 (or sightly lower) and 10.  Thus the comeptant character will rarely slip up at the simple tasks, but stretching the success envelope is very difficult.  I think that the balance of the system relies on the total modifier range being slightly larger than the dice roll itself, as with d20 and probably most other systems.I don't think using Con for number of hit points works well for this type of game either.  There's too much variety between players - a theoretical working party might have one character who can take 3 times the amount of damage as another member of the party. If you want the realism the teh atmosphere of such games requires, you will want most attacks to threaten death on the first attack, but rarely actually deliver it.  If you use the con scale, the attack will either give Mr 6-con no chance or be no threat to Mrs 18-con for three or four attacks.  Maybe something like a number + con modifier might work, but I would prefer, for this game, if the amount of damage you could sustain was universal but your ability to resist it was considered in the damage equasion.  For example, if all characters have 10 hit points and a bullet is coming in to do 9 damage, the Mr 6-con takes the hit for something like 10 damage and is knocked out, but Mr's 18-Con takes, say, 6 damage and lives another round, at least.  (Please note that the numbers here are speculative, based on a smaller range of ability scores).</blockquote>

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