[D20 Modern] What happened to making money?

[kreynolds]

Has anybody noticed that it's impossible to make any money using the Craft skill to build a 9mm sidearm? You end up paying the exact same amount it would cost to buy, only it to build it, and when you sell it, its purchase DC is 3 points lower. Anybody else besides me find this totally lame? I would think that the build purchase DC would be lower, so that when you sell it, you get the difference between the two DCs.

In D&D, blacksmiths stay in business because it only costs them half the market price to make something, so they usually net a 100% profit. In D20 Modern, it's impossible to make money, so how do gun manufacturers stay in business?

Thoughts?

 

[tensen]

Well personally the problem is that custom items costs more than a basic item. You aren't making an off the shelf item.. Those are cheap because they are mass produced.

if I wanted me a custom firearm even in this day and age, I'd expect to pay several multiples of a regular firearm.


In D&D... everything is custom made.. not really mass produced. So there is no difference between the local town smith making it... and the character.

 

[kreynolds]

Well personally the problem is that custom items costs more than a basic item.

The 9mm was just an example. The problem applies to across the board. Just because something is custom doesn't mean it costs more to build and you get a lesser return. Generally, custom means it costs the same or more to build, but the quality is better, so your return is greater. Either way, the economics of the Craft skills doesn't make any sense at all.

I've got a player who's a level away from being able to build a NO2 system out of scratch, and it seems rediculous that he couldn't make money doing that. Such a thing wouldn't net him a great increase in wealth, but every little bit helps.

 

[Mistwell]

Has anybody noticed that it's impossible to make any money using the Craft skill to build a 9mm sidearm? You end up paying the exact same amount it would cost to buy, only it to build it, and when you sell it, its purchase DC is 3 points lower. Anybody else besides me find this totally lame? I would think that the build purchase DC would be lower, so that when you sell it, you get the difference between the two DCs.

In D&D, blacksmiths stay in business because it only costs them half the market price to make something, so they usually net a 100% profit. In D20 Modern, it's impossible to make money, so how do gun manufacturers stay in business?

Thoughts?

The money you make in d20M is based off of your Profession skill. Craft is not meant for money-making activities, it is there for custom-built items you make to actually use. So that blacksmith/gun manufacturer is making money off of his Profession checks.

Personally, I am happy they changed this rule from D&D. I never liked the idea of the magic-using classes in D&D taking Craft:Wonderous Item feats just to make money, as opposed to helping the party out with custom (or hard to find) magic items. This d20M system fixes that problem.

 

[kreynolds]

Re: Re: [D20 Modern] What happened to making money?

The money you make in d20M is based off of your Profession skill.

Oh, I realize that, but if a character is willing to spend the time using his Craft skills, I don't see what the problem is.

 

[Unseelie]

Perhaps he is making money, but not enough to increase his wealth level.

 

[MGibster]

The 9mm was just an example. The problem applies to across the board. Just because something is custom doesn't mean it costs more to build and you get a lesser return. Generally, custom means it costs the same or more to build, but the quality is better, so your return is greater.

Uh, generally if it is custom made it cost more to make and it is of higher quality. If it didn't cost more to make and it wasn't of higher quality why bother getting a custom job done?

Marc

 

[kreynolds]

Uh, generally if it is custom made it cost more to make and it is of higher quality.

Not really. You're making a blanket statement that all custom crafting is more expensive to complete, which is not always the case. If you're really good at building dependable firearms, and it doesn't take you long to do it, then you're return for the time spent is greater. The same could apply to paintings, rocking chairs, dinner-ware, etc.

 

[jonrog1]

I agree that home-made items are not necessarily spiffy custom jobbies, but I think the problem is that Wealth is more a matter of lifestyle than actual zero-sum cash.

An intake of money -- from, say, selling your crafted item or the bargain you get from making your crafted item -- does not SIGNIFICANTLY change our buying power, and so our Wealth doesn't change.

What I mean, I guess, is the following: in D20Modern, say you build your own chair. What's your savings and/or proifit margin if you decide to sell the thing? $100? $200 if it's the spiffiest chair on the planet? That's not enough to affect your overall buying power, so there's no measurable effect for good or bad on your Wealth rating, because Wealth is much, much more abstract than we'[re used to treatign it in D&D.

However, if you are so DARN good at making chairs, and you do it OFTEN ENOUGH that you can make some serious coin -- well, then, you're probably doing it often enough that it's at least a part-time profession, which does change your buying power on the whole.

Say you want a notebook computer. Can't afford it, so I'll build one. You assemble the parts, and although you save yourself SOME money, is it enough to change your buying power for the year? Probably not.

I'll suggest this -- if someone has a couple ranks in a related profession (or maybe even a Knowledge category), give a discount to getting parts for crafting things. This implies that someone's SO into the subject that they can squeeze and optimize their resources to the nth degree, and pull off a really nice piece of work for appreciably cheaper.

Hope that helps in some way.

 

[Wudan Monkey]

Offhand I would have to say that the rules for Wealth and crafting items weren't designed with the idea of PCs becoming merchants, so they weren't tested or balanced that way.

A possible way to "fix" this would be to use the sell price of the item when making the Wealth check to get the materials to craft it. This would represent the inherent savings in making something yourself, but the character still wouldn't make any money selling the finished product.

If the character took enough levels in the Techie advanced class, he would then be able to (possibly) make money from mastercraft items. The purchase DC for materials goes up by one for each point of m/c bonus, while the sell DC would go up by three.

As a GM, I would discourage my players from doing this as their "off time" should really be spent pursuing their normal career or honing their class abilities (unless their character is all about building gadgets or whatnot).