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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Greg K" data-source="post: 3681003" data-attributes="member: 5038">I agree with a lot that has been said-except for dealing with skills. The  SAGA and Iron Heroes (before someone mentions it) treatment of skills are actually deal breakers for playing either game with both groups with whom I game.  As a GM, I don't so much mind having a fast NPC generation option that doesn't use skill points. However,  as player, I detest what SAGA does with skills (the removal of skill points, half level bonus, and the combining of skills). I prefer to determine just how good my character is in a skill and don't want automatic increases just, because my character increases in level. The same goes for the Iron Heroes approach where classes can improve in a group of certain skills instead of having to buy each skill in that group indivdually just because they belong to a certain class.</blockquote>