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<blockquote data-quote="EditorBFG" data-source="post: 3697843" data-attributes="member: 24719">Not to be catty about this, but what games are these, and how often have you seen them played?&nbsp; For the vast majority of games, the Charismatic hero is an unattractive option, and Smart and Dedicated heroes aren't much better. The fact is, even in low combat games, the &quot;strengths&quot; of the Smart/Charismatic heroes have always been better conveyed through role-playing then mechanics. Since you can't build player decision making or creativity into a class, I think they need something else.Also, the d20 system is built around combat. You may not like it, but that's how it is built: there are more rules about how things work in combat than any other situation. Therefore, a character who is less capable in combat is less capable in the system as a whole. I love narrative systems, and I am happy to spend whole game sessions interacting instead of fighting, but classes are mechanical constructs based on the existing system, not on role-playing as a platonic ideal. Therefore each class needs a combat role/advantage to be an attractive option.Plan made me really want to play a Smart hero when I first bought the book. Since it was my first read, I had not yet noticed that Plan required a starting Research talent-- &quot;Linguist&quot; or something equally sexy-- so I could not get it until 3rd level. Nor had I noticed that Smart heroes had the Wizard BAB without getting, you know, magic missile. That let that the air out of my sails real quick.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="EditorBFG, post: 3697843, member: 24719"] Not to be catty about this, but what games are these, and how often have you seen them played? For the vast majority of games, the Charismatic hero is an unattractive option, and Smart and Dedicated heroes aren't much better. The fact is, even in low combat games, the "strengths" of the Smart/Charismatic heroes have always been better conveyed through role-playing then mechanics. Since you can't build player decision making or creativity into a class, I think they need something else. Also, the d20 system is built around combat. You may not like it, but that's how it is built: there are more rules about how things work in combat than any other situation. Therefore, a character who is less capable in combat is less capable in the system as a whole. I love narrative systems, and I am happy to spend whole game sessions interacting instead of fighting, but classes are mechanical constructs based on the [I]existing[/I] system, not on role-playing as a platonic ideal. Therefore each class needs a combat role/advantage to be an attractive option.Plan made me really want to play a Smart hero when I first bought the book. Since it was my first read, I had not yet noticed that Plan required a starting Research talent-- "Linguist" or something equally sexy-- so I could not get it until 3rd level. Nor had I noticed that Smart heroes had the Wizard BAB without getting, you know, magic missile. That let that the air out of my sails real quick. [/QUOTE]

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