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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Mustrum_Ridcully" data-source="post: 1773323" data-attributes="member: 710">Shadowrun did never make me feel afraid to walk into a gunfire. Equipped with a good armor and some cyberware, and using my combat and karma pool wisely, I knew how to avoid lethal blows, and dish out severe damage against my opponents.The only difference in lethalness might be that you can be killed with one very lucky shot - but in fact you can´t, the moment when they added trauma dampener and maybe some pain resisance ware/spells/powers, a healthy person became unkillable with the first shot.Okay, maybe it seems like powergaming, I don´t want to discount the possiblity - probably it is. But the point is, you can do it, and reduce the lethalness greatly. Okay, if suddenly the opponents appear with using Antimaterial Rifles and Sniper weapons, my precaution might prove worthless. But even then, the enemy should better be well trained, because if he fails, the next actions of the PCs will certainly kill him (and now they got that nice weapon). And that´s not a lot different from D20 Modern. If suddenly a 1st level Strong Hero fires a .50 gun at the characters, he will most likely miss, but if he hits, there is a good chance for an MDT check. If he is equally experienced, his chances are even better..And speaking of lethalness, in the books it seems failry common for spellcasters to suffer from drain. They seemed to be extremely incapable in their job, because any starting character in Shadowrun can avoid it extremely easy (with or without - once again -. trauma dampener). Just choose a sensible power "setting", and use the effective spells (why manabolt if stunbolt can do mostly the same, plus has an reduced drain difficulty?). And don´t forget the Manapool."Romane sind keine Regelwerke" (a common phrase on the FanPro sites, but usally in response to unreasonable events in books), but I wonder if the intended feel of the setting shouldn´t make drain a viable danger?But on the other hand, the SR system lacks the options - both in melee as in ranged combat. (but the latter is true for D20 Modern, too) The only think it does have are dozens of modifiders to your attack roll, but that´s not fun.3d6 (average 10.5) for a 40mm grenade (launcher) or 4d6 (average 14) for an fragmentation grenade, reflex save for half (if you want to allow one). And you can´t kill yourself with a grenade in SR unless you are already severely damaged. The standard damage is S, that won´t kill you, even if the DM decides that no armor applies and the dice decide to roll extremely low so you gather no success. In d20 Modern, there is at least a chance that you go down and then bleed to death. In real life, grenade explosions sometimes seem quite unpredictable. There was a real life incident in Germany a few years ago where a person was attacked with a hand grenade (and I believe it was within an enclosed space - a van), and he survived (severely injured). On the other hand, people can be killed by grenades exploding 10 meters away. This kind of randomization is very difficult to model in an RPG. (And then you have to wonder if rolling XdY dice for damage is perhaps better than a mostly static DC and damage value...)Just because neither you nor me will change our minds the discussion can still be useful for those that haven´t made up their mind. And discussing is often a fun mental excercise <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />A good metric, it applies to me as well. It´s subjective, but FUN is subjective... And that´s what RPGs should do, after all...As point (1), a good "rule", and exactly the reason why I don´t like the d6 system. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

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