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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Longshadow" data-source="post: 1773542" data-attributes="member: 19626">Yeah, I know I said I was out of the discussion, but Ridcully made some points I can't not respond to (and here's hoping he leaves that crossbow in his big ole wizardly hat).We've played some very different SR, chummer.  I've routinely seen combat engines (i.e. high combat skills + high combat pool) punch damage overspill several boxes past deadly -- and Trauma Dampers only convert one box of damage, so they're impact didn't help.  And that's with pistols and assault rifles -- nobody wants to charge the guy holding the Panther AC   <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f60e.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":cool:" title="Cool    :cool:"  data-smilie="6"data-shortname=":cool:" /> .  Even a munchkinized Troll taking a head shot from something that starts at 14D, before staging, goes down.  Experiences vary, I guess.I think most of the book characters weren't ....uummm..."optimized" for gameplay.  But then, the only times I've seen drain really start to accrue were with casting big honking spells, or casting a whole lot of spells in rapid succession, or when the mage started off already wounded.  Most mage players simply design characters that can perform their schtick without falling over quickly -- just a truism of gaming."Novels aren't rulebooks" --  Is that right?  Woo-Hoo! Two years of the language in college and I finally get to use it in an informal setting.  I would tend to agree, as far as standard rules go, but they do define the color.  One of the few house rules I have is that combat spells and damaging manipulation spells, unless specifically designed otherwise, always have an obvious visual display -- because that's the way it shows up in the novels.  Technically, by the written rules, a powerful enough mage could cast a spell and everybody could fail their perception check to notice the casting, which I've never liked.  Oh, one of my other rules is that Trauma Dampers (a piece of equipment you apparently like <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />  ) don't affect Drain Resistance.  As far as I'm concerned, standard drain is fatigue, and trauma dampers only clamp down on pain signals and consequent responses.  Yeah, I'm a bastard, but I viewed the TD as a metagamers wet-dream and acted accordingly. In 3rd ed, grenade damage is staged by its own power rating and then modified by distance from the target.  10 dice against a  4 TN and you get very nasty grenades.  Add in that most people skimp on impact armor in favor of ballistic ratings and grenades are not the target's friend.  My military-type friends tell me they view that as an acceptable model for a grenade at close range (my first and longest playing SR group were two former Army Intelligence Officers, a policeman who went on to join a SWAT team, and a battle re-enactment fanatic who went on to get his PhD in History concentrating on uses of American Military power -- you talk about making me hone my tactical skills.  Grueling, but much fun!)Whoa, but do we disagree here.  SR doesn't have a carefully enunciated chart of combat interaction spelled out in rule terms, but that's because it doesn't have to, IMO.  I can describe a fairly complicated fight in general terms and the system is more than flexible enough to accomodate all of the actions involved without having to stretch, and with only a glance at some modifiers that might apply here and there.  I give my DMs conniptions by coming up with combat actions all the time in d20 that have them scratching their heads, rummaging through the rulebooks, and then making serious judgment calls.  The necromancer who had his zombies pick up opponents and then walk off cliffs with them, or the uber-strong fighter who could throw heavily armored dwarfs ridiculous distances as improvised weapons both spring readily to mind as examples.   (Hey, I already conceeded the bastardliness, guys. <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/devious.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":]" title="Devious    :]" data-shortname=":]" /> ) Well, yeah, go and be all reasonable then why don't ya? <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> Oh, and apologies to everybody for what could easily be seen as threadjacking.  Ridcully, old boy, we can continue this by e-mail if everybody would like us to get out of their way.</blockquote>

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