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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ruemere" data-source="post: 4754535" data-attributes="member: 5515">This is an extended version of my issues with d20 spell system. Posted here as per suggestion by Wulf Rathbane.INTRODUCTIONThis short document presents my view on the problems of d20 spell system. It is not intended to be exhaustive or definitive, however since it is a list of problems I have experienced during several years of playing and GMing the game, it may provide someone with a good way to start of bringing some improvements into the game.The whole story could be traced to my first experiences with Final Fantasy system (sorry, Wulf, it was PC, not Amiga - my bad), when I thought about converting 9 spell levels of AD&D to 100 levels of the computer game. Yet, it was only during Pathfinder playtesting when we, my players and me, have begun to experience painful side effects of d20 spell system.This critique is meant to assemble together issues. Solution proposals are beyond the scope of this short article.Here we go.1. The core of d20 system is a test of modified d20 roll vs static number (Difficulty Class or DC). And supplementary damage or secondary roll. The DC should be a static number unless you are fond of grandmas being able to arm wrestle dragons (i.e. the infamous natural 1 versus natural 20 during contested rolls).2. D20 roll is modified by skills, Base Attack Bonus (BAB), saves and other statistics. By default, the modifiers scale with level. 2.1    Exceptions: neglected skills, neglected character abilities.3. While numerous spells also scale with levels (directly, via caster level dependencies, indirectly, through feats and ability enhancments), quite a few of them fail to do so.3.1 Failure #1: spell DC does not scale well beyond spell level (this is an obvious problem for epic campaigns) since spell levels run out around 9.3.2 Failure #2: spell DC scales differently than saves (at different rate).3.2.1 The proper rate of scaling for saves assumes a lot about defender's build and wealth. 3.2.2 The proper rate of scaling for saves assumes a lot about availability of effects which affect saves.3.2.3 Spell DC is based on caster's forte while defender's save is usually defender's Achilles' heel.3.3 Failure #3: there are spells which circumvent the default core test of save roll vs DC or default core test of skill vs DC.3.3.1 Skipping the default test. Example: Knock.3.3.2 Replacing with a nonstandard test. Examples: Touch spells often do not allow saves, some spells substitute the default test with caster level check (example: Dispel Magic).3.3.3 Introducing non-relative, absolute effect. Example: Forcecage (as of Pathfinder BETA, Forcecage allows save), Antimagic Field, Wall of Force.3.3.3.1 Absolute effects bring d20 spell system problems to a whole new level - that of underequipped classes becoming irrelevant. Or of characters who fail to bring appropriate tools for the adventure and thus become stage filler.3.4 Failure #4: Binary/Lockdown spells are instants with no maintenance cost (read on below for explanation). 3.4.1 Binary spells (also known as Save'Or'Die or Save'Or'Suck) either work (and remove target instantly) or fail. Example: Finger of Death.3.4.2 Lockdown spells instantly negate character to the point of that character losing ability to affect play. Example: Insanity, Feeblemind.3.4.3 Instant spell with no maintenance cost should be contrasted with slow depletion of resources caused by other methods of combat. Basically, a spellcaster gambles (trying to use a spell with odds favoring spellcaster's side) while ranged/melee combat character laboriously continues war of attrition.3.4.4 To bring two sides to the same level, either the spellcaster would have to settle for delayed onset of effects (with partial effects taking place at earlier stages of casting) or the ranged/melee character would have to be able to produce an attack, with usage limited daily, able to penetrate opponent defenses with a simple save or lose effect.3.5 Failure #5: There are no passive magic defenses except Spell Resistance. An Archmage in pajamas and a king in a privy are open to nasty assassination attempts unless ludicrous amount of funds is expended on magic defenses.----That's it. There are already quite a few attempts to patch these issues (notably, quite a few of those were fixed in True20... at least according to quick start rules available for download), however there has been no real comprehensive alternative solution.I cannot help noticing that most of these problems have been resolved in many online games, by either turning everything into hitpoint damage, damage over time effects or very short durations or easily broken up effects. However, such solution comes at the cost of losing the difference between spellcasters and non-spellcasters. Two or three games introduced quite interesting ideas. Rolemaster (MERP incarnation) turned spells into standard tests with special bonuses. Storyteller games use dicepools with a chance of absolutely devastating success being relatively low. Savage Worlds introduce metagame mechanics (Wild Die and bennies) to allow protagonist cheat their odds. And so on.Yet, these games are not D20. So, who knows, maybe someone can think of redesign d20 spell system?Regards,Ruemere</blockquote>

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