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Message: <blockquote data-quote="jdrakeh" data-source="post: 2699393" data-attributes="member: 13892">Yes. That's exactly what I'm saying. At one point in time, Spycraft 1.0 was ranked by GTM as being a 'Top 5' best seller when d20 Modern was not. I don't have my old GTM collection handy anymore, so I can't quote an exact issue but I think that it was from a Summer 2003 issue (but I might be mistaken about that). Really? Can you produce a source? Or are you an exception to your own rule? <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />It isn't particularly important to me, either - note that I only have three or four posts in this thread. As I indicated, I was careful to use past-tense verbiage (something that, despite my mentioning it twice now, a lot of people seem to be overlooking). I did not say "outselling" - I said "outsold". And I never stated this as a certainty, only as a likelihood. Suggesting that I am biased, or only demanding proof from one side, is not fair</blockquote>So far, I think that Joe and I are the only two people to actually cite sources on either side of the argument - but we're hardly the only two people to make said claims. What got me was that you aren't asking for (or presenting) evidence to support your claims, but are demanding that others do so - and that seems a bit contrary. True. So, in order for me to ascertain that you're not merely a WotC die-hard, could you cite a source? <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />[Note: As mentioned before, this is really not a proveable argument either way - Game Trade sales figures and Amazon sales figures simply don't accurately reflect the hobby as a whole. Amazon numbers, in fact, don't reflect it at all - they only reflect Amazon book sale  trends. Likewise, Game Trade figures only represent Diamond/Alliance retail store trends. Outside of hard-coded sales figures being released by WotC and GR, there is no hard evidence to prove either side of the debate. It's all very circumstantial.][/QUOTE]

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