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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 9895391" data-attributes="member: 87792">Nope. I argue about the presentation. The Domains are important. The first thing presented.Every class gets two Domains - and each domain is a huge thing about that class. If you have a spellcasting stat and no spells does that make you a spellcaster?Daggerheart domains break down to me into four groups regarding magicality:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Cinematic: Blade, Valour, Bone. These are not casters just larger than life people.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Liminal: Grace, Midnight. There's a whole lot of cinematic skill and plausible deniability and how far into casting they go is character specific</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Magically Skilled: Sage, Splendour, Blood. These domains are magically backed skill; mostly spells but some larger than life skills</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Pure magic: Arcana, Codex, Dread. These domains are pure casting.</li> </ul>Let's actually look at the rules and see what they say. In specific let's look at the domain cards.<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Of the 21 Arcana cards 20 are spells, with the only exception being Arcana-Touched. It's a pure caster domain</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Of the 21 Sage cards the only ones that aren't spells are the level 1 Nature's Tongue and Gifted Tracker, Level 6 Forager, Level 7 Sage-Touched, and level 9 Fane of the Wilds. It's magically skilled.</li> </ul>While you are level 5 or below and using Sage and Arcana you can have a maximum of two domain abilities that aren't spells. You're a caster with one of the blastiest ability sets.Meanwhile for the rogue<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Of the 21 Grace cards 2 level 1, 1 level 2, 1 level 4, 1 level 6, 2 level 7, 1 level 9, and 1 level 10 ability are abilities and not magic</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Of the 21 Midnight cards 1 level 1, 1 level 3, 1 level 4, 1 level 7, 1 level 8, and 1 level 9 domain cards are abilities</li> </ul>And this doesn't even count "liminal spells" such as Uncanny Disguise.It is impossible to make a druid that is not a caster beyond level 1 - and Arcana spells and even Sage spells are pretty much always flashy. Meanwhile when a rogue uses e.g. Words of Discord the card is a spell but it is easy to fluff as they are just that good at causing confusion. It's possible to make a magical rogue or a liminal one. It's basically impossible to make a druid that's not a caster.Not if the players are good. A beastform druid is competent. Not expert.LOL. "If you ignore their abilities because you don't know how to use them then they seem limited."Meanwhile every single D&D druid in 3.X or 5e is a primary caster who goes up to level 9 spells and uses spell slots. Every single D&D druid from 3e onwards is a shapeshifting power-caster who has access to the entire range of druid spells appropriate for their level (they just need to long rest to change them). There is only one significant choice a druid makes in 5e after level one, and that is their subclass at level 3.There is nothing forcing you to shapeshift in Daggerheart. If you're a decent player it's just a part of your toolbox. I've seen druids spend multiple sessions in a row in base form because it was what was appropriate and they had spells they wanted to use. Meanwhile every single 5e Druid from level 2 onwards can shapeshift. And apparently in your world "can" means "must"?The Daggerheart druid is good at shapeshifting. Not good enough that it's the only thing the best druids do.So your problem is that people turn into bears to fight because it's fun and effective rather than simply stick to turning into owls and rats to scout (which cause much bigger conservation of mass problems). No it's not. It is you saying "this is the only way I want to play it therefore it is the only way it can be played". The Daggerheart druid is also the 3.5 druid who stays mostly in humanoid form but occasionally turns into a bear to fight. And the 5e Moon druid who has a decent spell list or can turn into an animal. Or when you level up one of the new 5e Kaiju Druids.That you personally want to play a Druid as a WoW Feral Druid and think the only thing they do is wild shape shows your limits.And the reality is I have seen druids that do more from the orthodox Feral Druid to essentially nature elementals to someone cursed not to really have a true form to a wandering sorcerer who treated beastsforms as big spells. That you can only see how to work one way is your limitation.</blockquote>

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