Daggerspell Shaper question

[korasukage]

Hi All
I am working on a character(I might actually be able to play which will be awesome as I usually dm) and I was wondering in regards to the daggerspell shaper do the levels stack with wild shape in order to determine max HD of the animal you can wild shape into? I don't have my books with me and I cannot remember.
Thanks

Just in case you are wondering I have come up with this as my pc idea....

race:wood elf

wilderness rogue2[UA variant]/druid4[UA tracking variant]/lion of talisid4/daggerspell shaper10

 

[Kae'Yoss]

It should. It doesn't state it though. But since it would make no sense otherwise, and since they did the same with the Master of Many Forms, I'd say levels stack for max HD (but not for Size and Type)

 

[Gez]

I'm still waiting for errata on the Daggerspell Shaper, since it states:

A daggerspell shaper can change into a Small or Medium animal and back again, and can do so more often than most other characters with the wild shape ability. See the druid class feature, page 37 of the Player's Handbook.​

And this is very false.

Let's compare. The earlier one can qualify is at level 6 (druid 5 for wildshape, rogue 1 for sneak attack).
Druid 7 (3/day) vs. druid 5/rogue 1/shaper 1 (2/day) -- advantage straight druid.
D 9 (3/day) vs. DRS 7/1/1 (4/day) -- advantage druid-heavy shaper, but...
D 9 (3/day) vs. DRS 5/1/3 (2/day) -- advantage straight druid. And anyway...
D 10 (4/day) vs. DRS 8/1/1 (4/day) or DRS 7/1/2 (4/day) -- even. The advantage worked only for one level.
Now, for the coup de grâce:
D 20 (6/day + 3/day) vs. DRS 9/1/10 (6/day) -- advantage straight druid.
D 20 (6/day + 3/day) vs. DRS 18/1/1 (7/day + 2/day) -- tie, with more animal wildshapes for the Shaper, but more elemental wildshapes for the druid; but such a multiclassed character could not really claim to be primarily a daggerspell shaper.

The thing is, the druid gets three levels in a row where his number of wild shapes per day increase (5, 6, 7). The Shaper do not. So, only by becoming a Shaper after druid level 7 can he outperform the single-classed druid... Who, at this time, gets Large wildshape anyway.

Then the druid waits three levels (from 7 to 10), and then four levels (from 10 to 14 and from 14 to 18). Without counting elemental wildshapes. The DSS, on the other hand, waits four levels (from 1 to 5), then five (from 5 to 10).

 

[moritheil]

I'm still waiting for errata on the Daggerspell Shaper, since it states:

A daggerspell shaper can change into a Small or Medium animal and back again, and can do so more often than most other characters with the wild shape ability. See the druid class feature, page 37 of the Player's Handbook.​

And this is very false.

Authors have a strange tendency to do this in order to inflate the worth of the PrCs they write.

 

[korasukage]

It should. It doesn't state it though. But since it would make no sense otherwise, and since they did the same with the Master of Many Forms, I'd say levels stack for max HD (but not for Size and Type)

Yeah this is what I assumed I just wanted to make sure I wasn't mistaken

Authors have a strange tendency to do this in order to inflate the worth of the PrCs they write.

Its funny how they do that sometimes

Thanks again all!

 

[Diirk]

Just a sidenote, but you're probably better off with a ninja level instead of a rogue level.. sudden strike counts as sneak attack for qualifying for PrCs etc, and you get wis bonus to ac
Sure you don't get to use sudden strike nearly so often as sneak attack, but its probably worth the small sacrifice.

 

[korasukage]

Just a sidenote, but you're probably better off with a ninja level instead of a rogue level.. sudden strike counts as sneak attack for qualifying for PrCs etc, and you get wis bonus to ac
Sure you don't get to use sudden strike nearly so often as sneak attack, but its probably worth the small sacrifice.

Yeah that is cool! Actually the UA variant druid that I am using gives the monk bonuses to ac(including wis to ac). Though I have to give up wild shape and armour proficiency. As a side note the variant also grants tracking. That is why I took Lion of Talisid as it grants the wild shape ability and at 8th lvl I can assume large sized animals. So my idea is to wild shape into a celestial(via the exalted wild shape feat) sabre tooth cat(9HD)(Frostburn) later on in my career

Cheers
Kor