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<blockquote data-quote="KidSnide" data-source="post: 6064513" data-attributes="member: 54710">At high levels, the difference between an improvised weapon and a +3 two-handed sword is all in the two-hit roll.&nbsp; Even at high levels, getting a +3 to hit bonus is a big deal.&nbsp; Turning a 65% to hit chance into a 80% to hit chance increases damage by 23%, plus the (admitted small) bonus to damage.&nbsp; Also, as I read it, nobody really has proficiency in improvised weapons, so attacks with the chopstick would be at disadvantage.&nbsp; Now, you can question whether a powerful magic sword should only be twice as effective as chopstick, but I suspect the game is a little more fun if that's accurate.As far the specifics of fighter damage, I find it hard to evaluate because I don't have a lot to compare it to.&nbsp; Sure, you can look at Asmodeus, but that's our only example of a 20th level monster, and it's far from clear that they have the design for Asmodeus down right.&nbsp; (If you compare the amount of time the designers have surely spent on fighters to the amount of time the designers have surely spent on Asmodeus, you have to conclude that fighters have received a lot more thought and a mistake is more likely on the monster side.)&nbsp; I agree that Asmodeus should require more than five hits, but I'm not sure I consider Asmodeus a good example of a 20th level monster.&nbsp; Surely, Asmodeus should compare to 20th level characters like small dragons compare to 1st level characters (i.e. fightable, but deadly).&nbsp; Small dragons are typically more powerful than 1st level monsters like goblins.&nbsp; Asmodeus should presumably be statted out like a 24th or 26th level monster.Also, it looks like fighters, monks and rogues do vastly more damage than spell casters (including wizards).&nbsp; I don't think the designers have high-level martial / caster balance down yet.&nbsp; If you think fighters kill high level monsters too quick, is that an overall problem with PC damage or a specific issue with the numbers assigned to martial damage?-KS</blockquote>

[QUOTE="KidSnide, post: 6064513, member: 54710"] At high levels, the difference between an improvised weapon and a +3 two-handed sword is all in the two-hit roll. Even at high levels, getting a +3 to hit bonus is a big deal. Turning a 65% to hit chance into a 80% to hit chance increases damage by 23%, plus the (admitted small) bonus to damage. Also, as I read it, nobody really has proficiency in improvised weapons, so attacks with the chopstick would be at disadvantage. Now, you can question whether a powerful magic sword should [I]only[/I] be twice as effective as chopstick, but I suspect the game is a little more fun if that's accurate. As far the specifics of fighter damage, I find it hard to evaluate because I don't have a lot to compare it to. Sure, you can look at Asmodeus, but that's our only example of a 20th level monster, and it's far from clear that they have the design for Asmodeus down right. (If you compare the amount of time the designers have surely spent on fighters to the amount of time the designers have surely spent on Asmodeus, you have to conclude that fighters have received a lot more thought and a mistake is more likely on the monster side.) I agree that Asmodeus should require more than five hits, but I'm not sure I consider Asmodeus a good example of a 20th level monster. Surely, Asmodeus should compare to 20th level characters like small dragons compare to 1st level characters (i.e. fightable, but deadly). Small dragons are typically more powerful than 1st level monsters like goblins. Asmodeus should presumably be statted out like a 24th or 26th level monster. Also, it looks like fighters, monks and rogues do vastly more damage than spell casters (including wizards). I don't think the designers have high-level martial / caster balance down yet. If you think fighters kill high level monsters too quick, is that an overall problem with PC damage or a specific issue with the numbers assigned to martial damage? -KS [/QUOTE]

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