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Damage on a Miss: Because otherwise Armour Class makes no sense
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<blockquote data-quote="tomBitonti" data-source="post: 6271417" data-attributes="member: 13107"><p>*) What should the DOAM damage amount be?</p><p></p><p>In 3E terms, at first level, we can easily have a barbarian with:</p><p></p><p>Attack Bonus: +6: +1 (BAB) +1 (Weapon Focus) +3 (16 Str) +2 (+4 Str; Rage) -1 (Power Attack 1)</p><p></p><p>Damage: 15.5: 1d12 + 9: 1d12 (Great Axe) +7 (Str) +2 (Power Attack 1)</p><p></p><p>On the other hand, a sword and board fighter:</p><p></p><p>Attack Bonus: +5: +1 (BAB) +1 (Focus) +3 (16 Str)</p><p>Damage: 7.5: 1d8 + 3: 1d8 (Longsword) + 3 (16 Str)</p><p></p><p>Or, a fighter in a pinch, with just a dagger:</p><p></p><p>Attach Bonus: +4: +1 (BAB) +3 (16 Str)</p><p>Damage: 5.5: 1d4 + 3: 1d4 (Dagger) +3 (16 Str)</p><p></p><p>What's an appropriate DOAM damage amount if it is to be applied in all three cases?</p><p></p><p>*) Why only fighters? That is, why is a fighters ability of a different quality than a ranger's ability, or, a rogues? Why wouldn't BAB be a good universal measure of fighting ability? If DOAM represents effort (or luck) expended to avoid a miss, what makes a fighters miss more troublesome than a rogues miss, if both attack with the same attack bonus?</p><p></p><p>*) How do you narrate a miss from an attack of which the target is unaware? "The player felt a chill, as if someone had walked over their grave, or as if the fates had placed a dark doom upon them." ??</p><p></p><p>*) Where in the attack resolution to handle miss changes, say, due to cover or concealment?</p><p></p><p>*) What happens for, say, mirror image, or poison? Or for attacks which include additional effects, say, a blade that adds 1d6 fire damage?</p><p></p><p>---</p><p></p><p>The more I think about it, DOAM seems to be changing a fundamental point of how damage is applied (in D&D). One could replace weapon damage rolls with averages: 4 (or 5) instead of a 1d8. 6 (or 7) for a 1d12; 7 for 2d6, and so on. Or, one could scale damage based on the attack roll. That would probably only work with computer assistance. To create a contrived example, for a 1d8 + 3 damage result with a +7 attack bonus against AC 20, then a 13 roll yields 4 points, a 17 roll yields 8 points, and a 20 roll yields 11 points. Or, the attack roll could be omitted altogether, or radically simplified. Again, requiring computer assistance, the attack could be converted to expected damage, then linearized against an attack roll of a 1d4, with 12.5%, 37.5%, 62.%%, and 87.5% of damage on 1, 2, 3, or 4.</p><p></p><p>The end numbers would end up about the same, but hardly anyone suggests to do this. Pretty boring, and not easy to do without a computer (although trivial with one).</p><p></p><p>Doesn't Numenera do this? With modification to enable exceptional results (and put back in the excitement)? In the end, workable, but also, in the end, a rather different game system.</p><p></p><p>I'm still wondering what new excitement / game possibilities we achieve with DOAM type abilities.</p><p></p><p>Thx!</p><p></p><p>TomB</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="tomBitonti, post: 6271417, member: 13107"] *) What should the DOAM damage amount be? In 3E terms, at first level, we can easily have a barbarian with: Attack Bonus: +6: +1 (BAB) +1 (Weapon Focus) +3 (16 Str) +2 (+4 Str; Rage) -1 (Power Attack 1) Damage: 15.5: 1d12 + 9: 1d12 (Great Axe) +7 (Str) +2 (Power Attack 1) On the other hand, a sword and board fighter: Attack Bonus: +5: +1 (BAB) +1 (Focus) +3 (16 Str) Damage: 7.5: 1d8 + 3: 1d8 (Longsword) + 3 (16 Str) Or, a fighter in a pinch, with just a dagger: Attach Bonus: +4: +1 (BAB) +3 (16 Str) Damage: 5.5: 1d4 + 3: 1d4 (Dagger) +3 (16 Str) What's an appropriate DOAM damage amount if it is to be applied in all three cases? *) Why only fighters? That is, why is a fighters ability of a different quality than a ranger's ability, or, a rogues? Why wouldn't BAB be a good universal measure of fighting ability? If DOAM represents effort (or luck) expended to avoid a miss, what makes a fighters miss more troublesome than a rogues miss, if both attack with the same attack bonus? *) How do you narrate a miss from an attack of which the target is unaware? "The player felt a chill, as if someone had walked over their grave, or as if the fates had placed a dark doom upon them." ?? *) Where in the attack resolution to handle miss changes, say, due to cover or concealment? *) What happens for, say, mirror image, or poison? Or for attacks which include additional effects, say, a blade that adds 1d6 fire damage? --- The more I think about it, DOAM seems to be changing a fundamental point of how damage is applied (in D&D). One could replace weapon damage rolls with averages: 4 (or 5) instead of a 1d8. 6 (or 7) for a 1d12; 7 for 2d6, and so on. Or, one could scale damage based on the attack roll. That would probably only work with computer assistance. To create a contrived example, for a 1d8 + 3 damage result with a +7 attack bonus against AC 20, then a 13 roll yields 4 points, a 17 roll yields 8 points, and a 20 roll yields 11 points. Or, the attack roll could be omitted altogether, or radically simplified. Again, requiring computer assistance, the attack could be converted to expected damage, then linearized against an attack roll of a 1d4, with 12.5%, 37.5%, 62.%%, and 87.5% of damage on 1, 2, 3, or 4. The end numbers would end up about the same, but hardly anyone suggests to do this. Pretty boring, and not easy to do without a computer (although trivial with one). Doesn't Numenera do this? With modification to enable exceptional results (and put back in the excitement)? In the end, workable, but also, in the end, a rather different game system. I'm still wondering what new excitement / game possibilities we achieve with DOAM type abilities. Thx! TomB [/QUOTE]
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