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Message: <blockquote data-quote="tomBitonti" data-source="post: 6275524" data-attributes="member: 13107">I'm thinking 3E did the game (or at least the view of rogues) damage in this regard.  In 3E, flanking is sufficient for a rogue to deal sneak attack damage.  In 1E (I thought) a rogue needed to be hidden to use sneak attack (then called backstab).Also, 3E took away a lot of the flavor / style difference between combat styles by factoring these into BAB (which is strictly comparable between classes: a +5BAB rogue fights equally as well as a +5BAB fighter, and equally as well as a +5BAB wizard) plus feats and class features, with the style differences shifted entirely to the feats and class features.  (One of those class features is weapon proficiency.  A non-multi-classed rogue has many fewer weapon proficiencies than a fighter.  Which, as an aside, points out a weakness of 3E multi-classing, in that class features seem to be transferred too easily.  A rogue/fighter can sneak attack with any weapon as a result, not just rogue/finesse type weapons, which seems odd.  You might consider this not as a weakness but as a strength of the system.)From the 1E point of view, a rogue doesn't want to be in the fray.  When faced with an aware, capable, opponent, a rogue ducks out of sight.  In 3E, a rogue is a part of the fray, and simply looks to avoid the worst attacks, while maneuvering for position (to flank) to make sneak attacks.I'm thinking a part of the difference is to consider swashbuckler types as a kind of fighter distinct from rogues.But, from a style point of view, a rogue might be alright in a dagger on dagger fight in a shadowy alleyway.  Against an armored fighter kitted with sword and shield, a rogue should do poorly.  That would seem to be the traditional view of rogues.On the second point: A "hit" with brass knuckles might make no contact, but do hit point damage.  A part of what hit points represent is "ablative luck".  That is, if on average, three good attacks are necessary before obtaining a solid, debilitating hit with brass knuckles, that might be modeled with brass knuckles doing an average of 1/3 of the targets hit points on a successful hit.  Whether one, all three, or just the last hit actually connects is not known, that being obscured by the combat model.Thx!TomB</blockquote>

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