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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Elder-Basilisk" data-source="post: 1324962" data-attributes="member: 3146">Your analysis leaves out a few options:1. Buckler (possibly with Improved Buckler Defense (CW)).2. Imp Shield Bash Sword and Sheild TWFBoth of these allow the TWF character to get a decent AC much more easily than the THF. The TWF character doesn't necessarily have an AC advantage over the ThF but can have it if he chooses to.The Defending weapon in the off-hand is another case of this. A TWF with Improved Buckler Defense (or using a Defending spiked shield with Imp Shield Bash) can have AC from both the weapon AND the shield if he wants it. And in situations where AC is more valuable than damage, that can be very significant.Also, if we are to assume that the ThF wears fullplate to mitigate his AC disadvantage (not all do--I've noticed a pronounced tendency for barbarians to wear chain shirts so as to be able to get surrounded more quickly and/or be further from the cleric by the time they get into trouble), he adds a mobility disadvantage to the equation.I'm not sure I agree with this. By the time GTWF becomes an option, the 19 dex is easily achievable with gloves of dex +4 and a 15 starting dex. That's a little bit more than the ThF in a point buy system but not necessarily too much. It will probably amount to one or two points of strength difference assuming that both characters are built with similar priorities in mind.The problem with a ThF carrying a dagger or shortsword for use in a grapple is that it takes a grapple check to draw them. When the thing grappling you is a purple worm or a Tyranosaurus that just swallowed you whole, you're pretty unlikely to succeed no matter what your strength is. Armor spikes or spiked gauntlets can mitigate the ThF's grapple disadvantage but the real advantage for the TwF is that he can continue to use his primary weapon in the grapple. If I'm 11th level, I'd much rather use my +3 Frost handaxe against the worm than my masterwork (or maybe +1) armor spikes/Spiked gauntlet. This is especially true when considering that the WS, GWS, etc apply to the one but not the other.Effective ThF characters are much easier to construct than effective TWF characters (duh, grab a barbarian, add greataxe, sautee with cleave and you're done) but that doesn't mean that TWF characters have to be rogues to be effective.</blockquote>

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