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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Scion" data-source="post: 1326475" data-attributes="member: 5777">With improvd buckler defense the twf is at least 4 feats behind thf.The shield will cost as much as a shield and a weapon. So you will have to pay for 2 weapons, a shield, and armor.. just to begin with what you want to use. Vs the thf who needs one weapon, an animated shield, and an armor.Mithril breast plate has a max dex bonus of +5. Your examples had a lowest dex of 12, +6 item (cheap at these levels, especially for the benefit) gets up you to 18 which is a +4. No huge loss. 1 point? Even if you can get the ac difference up as high as 4 (with one point here, and another from two weapon defense and another from going defensive or something) the amount of damage and hitting potential still favors the thf. If it is by 4 then the thf is winning out by an incredibly huge amount.What mobility change? they are both wearing the same armor, they will both have the same speed. If anything the thf has better mobility, he has more feats to spread around to get more options..Did you see the AC on that dinosaur you mentioned??? 14. The thf could power attack for 10 and still have a reasonable chance of hitting with his 4th attack in a round (as in, needing a 2 or higher). 4 attacks that all hit on a 2 or higher doing at least 20 points of damage each cuts away almost half of its hp.. before adding in strength or even weapon damage!As far as the rest of those grappling monsters go everyone has a hard time with them. Even your twf will have a bad time of it, very likely will be slaughtered with the rest. At best he'll be able to do some damage before he dies while the others cant do any damage, but everyone has a contingency plan of some sort. Are you saying that your twf is better during a grapple than at other times? still doesnt seem to be.All of the twf I have seen on the board are always far behind in every sense except in very specific circumstances. You really have to pull out some very specific builds in order to get the real power out of it, and outside of those it just doesnt work very well.3 feats just to 'almost keep up sometimes' with someone who spent 0That line alone says everything. If someone is going to pile up that many feats into a certain feat chain they should be 'better' at doing whatever they are trying to do than someone else going along a similar line. If they only come 'up to par', which from what I've seen hasnt even been shown by all of your examples, then something is seriously wrong.</blockquote>

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