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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Elder-Basilisk" data-source="post: 1340017" data-attributes="member: 3146">Not so. Stat out the costs:At low levels:+1 greatsword: 2350+1 longsword and masterwork (attack and defense) light shield: 2760 or so.At mid levels:+1 holy greatsword: 18,350gp+1 flaming shortsword and +2 defense/+1 bane offense heavy shield: 20,467gp or so.At high levels:+5 flaming burst bane greatsword: 128,350+4 returning frost light hammer and +5 defense, +2 (offense) defending heavy shield of shock: 129, 770 or so.Two weapons of slightly lower enhancement plus a shield come out to only slightly (at nearly all levels, a negligable amount) than the THF weapon.If we try to get the high level THF an animated shield to equalize any AC advantage (a rather cheesy IMO enhancement to begin with and one that won't be universally available; although it must be taken into account for such comparisons, it is not clear to me that "this equipment gives a THF an advantage" is a deciding factor in the comparison--especially when we refuse to consider the same factor (can anyone say two bane shortswords of wounding or paired sunblades?) in favor of TWF), the numbers work out like this:At mid levels:+1 holy greatsword and +2 heavy animated shield: 34,507gp+1 Axiomatic shortsword and +2 defense/+1 bane offense heavy shield: 30,767gp or so.At high levels:+5 flaming burst bane greatsword and +5 animated heavy shield: 177,507+5 Anarchic light pick and +5 defense, +3 (offense) defending heavy shield of shock: 173,700 and changeThe cost of an animated shield that equals the AC of the TWF (shield) fighter (Assuming that the shield fighter doesn't use the defending ability on his weapon), allows the TWF to equalize the primary weapon enhancements or make very significant upgrades to his off-hand weapon.Again, your argument only points out that THF types can take steps to equalize a disadvantage here. And your argument about +6 items being cheap, like the assumption that the THF will have an animated shield, assumes high levels. +6 items aren't cheap for characters at levels 1-10.Nonsense. They don't both wear the same armor because different armors offer different advantages. (You previously argued that the THF equalizes his AC without increasing dex by wearing fullplate). If they both wear the same armor, the THF will have a lower AC. If they wear different armors, the THF will have less manueverability.Did you see the CR on that dinosaur? Any THF fighter that has four attacks per round who goes up against it ought to paste it by blinking. If he doesn't, something is wrong. However, I assure you that the issue is very different if you run an 8th level THF against the T-Rex.Nope. I'm saying that he's slightly less screwed--especially by monsters who swallow whole. And, while others point out that the monster can generally pin the round after it starts the grapple, one round of damage from the TWF will often make a big difference in the outcome of a battle.Just because something requires "specific builds" to get "real power" doesn't mean there's something wrong with it. That's true of nearly every option in D&D. Anyone can take an iconic half-orc barbarian but if you want to get the real power out of it, it'll take some specialized builds. Anyone can take an iconic elf archer and make it work but if you want to get the real power out of it, it'll take some specialized builds.Similarly, anyone can take the iconic TWF types--the single classed ranger (incidentally, the single classed ranger using TWF against a favored enemy blows nearly every other fighter type out of the water in terms of damage/full attack--it's not even close), the paired weapon, or the double weapon fighter, or the dual wielding rogue and make a character who's good enough. However, to get the real power out of it you need some specialized builds.Well, every example anyone has tossed out for the THF includes Power Attack so make that 3-1. And, if the THF goes for Close Quarters Fighting, it's 3-2. That's not too bad considering the power that you can get out of some of those specialized builds. What you seem to want to do is compare a maximized THF to a standard TWF. Instead, you should compare a maximized TWF to a maximized THF. (If you want animated shields for the THF, give wounding or vorpal weapons to the TWF, for instance).</blockquote>

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