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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Scion" data-source="post: 1341237" data-attributes="member: 5777">Hey again basilisk.Out of all of the comparisons (and there were a lot) this is the line that matters.You are using one weapon of lesser enhancement in order to equalize costs. That right there proves the point I made earlierweapon +X and shield +(Y+2) costs less than 2xweapon+X and shield +YIf you give the twf a weapon of lesser enhancement then his damage dealing output drops even farther (ie gets even worse).Go ahead and make your comparisons with whichever combos of weapons you like (sunblades you said?), lets see how those turn out. Until then though, all of you comparisons of cost just proved what I was already saying, it costs the twf more to keep up with the thf.Greater twf takes BAB 11+. Failing that (for your 1 - 10 comparison) the thf will use an armor that will reduce some of his speed but gains a much larger AC boost, so the thf will either have equivalent or equal AC. I stated that out earlier in the thread. While this does reduce mobility (point twf) it is also useful when flat footed (point thf). Depending on the campaign one might be better than the other.Great, but none of this has any bearing. Of course an 8th level guy is going to have a harder time than a 20th level guy. Sure. But then neither of those characters will have a chance of succeeding at a grapple check against the trex so it DOESNT MATTER what weapons they are holding. The trex will simply pin and then destroy, or swallow (at which point they will both try to cut their ways out, the thf carrying a dagger will get out in a round, just like the twf)Plus, as I stated earlier, even if the twf is better in grapple situations that would be a point for twf. Of course then you look at pretty much every other combat manuever and thf is better.. so +1 twf, +8 for thf? They have listed other feats because the twf is 3 feats behind. Three. It is NOT 3:1, it is twf has used 3 feats to get as proficient as the thf is at 0. At which point people have said, 'well, if we take these feats then the thf will be even farther ahead in situation X'.Plus your build above needs 4 feats minimum. 3 twf feats and then one to use your shield as a weapon.I cannot compare a maximised TWF to a maximised THF because the thf has too many options from which to choose, some are perfect for situation 1, some for 2, some for 3, some for a combination of several. THAT IS THE POINT! The twf is three feats in the whole (or 4 for the one you gave above) and the thf gets to pick and choose from all sorts of feats to make him better at things.How about: weapon focus, weapon specialzation, and improved critical? These are incredibly generic feats. Now the thf is even farther ahead on damage, crits more, and hits more. Oop, we need a fourth feat as well.Oh wait, lets forget those three, and pick up the entire great cleave feat tree! Now at least some of the time (incredibly heavily campaign dependent) the thf will get more attacks in a given round than the twf! Whether full attacking or not. Plus the thf can use cleave much more easily than twf.How many different combination of feats are out there that are possible for the fighter is difficult to say. It is a lot. Showing that even after 3 (or 4) feats the twf still does less damage, has the same ac, and needs to spend more money should just finish the whole discussion.</blockquote>

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