Damaging a Ship.....

JamesL85

First Post
One of the guys in my group was working on the next adventure to take our characters through and came up with an interesting question....

How many points of damage would a boat take before it sunk????

I was on my way to the liquor store to stock up for the 4th of July and the question caught me off guard. I pride myself on having most of the books, but I don't ever remember reading anything about hit points for a boat.

I realize that there is a damage reduction for wood, but exactly how many inches thick is the hull of a ship? And I realize that the normal attack of a Kraken would probably go a MUCH longer way towards sinking a boat than a single attack by a Merman with a trident.....

Any help would be appreciated.....

James
 

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The Arms & Equipment Guide has rules for vehicles.

Damaging a vehicle is similar to damaging a wall. Each 10'x10' section has its own hp total; if enough damage is done in one area, that section is destroyed. At that point, a watergoing vessel is doomed to sink unless there is some heroic or magical intervention. (Smart seagoing adventurers carry spells like make whole, fabricate, and major creation.)

Hit points per section vary by vehicle, from 30 for a launch up to 100 for a warship. Larger vehicles also have more sections, so can take more total hits before any one section is destroyed. Extremely tough war vehicles can even have magical protection or metal plating, which increases both hit points and hardness.
 

If you need a comprehensive (but complex) system for ship damage, check out Living Imagination's Broadsides. Hull and rigging have different hit point values, which vary by ship size.
 

Thanks for the replies guys....

I do have the Arms & Equipment Guide, but I haven't looked through it much. I'll let my friend know.

If you need a comprehensive (but complex) system for ship damage, check out Living Imagination's Broadsides. Hull and rigging have different hit point values, which vary by ship size.

Have never heard of Broadsides....Is that a sourcebook, or something downloadable off the net, or what? I'm way out here in western Kansas and the Hastings store where I buy all my books (an hour away) doesn't carry much stuff. If I want something non-WotC, I generally have to special order it. Pretty pathetic.....

Thanks again for your help.....
 

shipboard combat

another sourcebook that is quite comprehensive is " Seas of Blood" by mongoose publishing. It has a comprehensive list of ships and combat traits for ships. Also there is a section for new calsses for characters with high seas adventuering in mind. Deck plans include the sizes from rowboat to fantasy Sovereign and Leviathan class ships. THis book is the ORL content so it should be ok to use for 3.5 rules. Another supplement is the AD&D rules supplement named "of Ships and the Sea" by Kieth Strohm. This has a good amount of information on ships, sizes and hp, but you would have to modify and fudge some of the information. hope this has helpe d you out :D
 

JamesL85 said:
but exactly how many inches thick is the hull of a ship? And I realize that the normal attack of a Kraken would probably go a MUCH longer way towards sinking a boat than a single attack by a Merman with a trident.....

Any help would be appreciated.....

James
You've gotten several references to rules, here's a "common sense" offering...

A Merman with a trident could attack the ship all day long without endangering it significantly. Trying to whittle through a ship's hull with a glorified pitchfork would be an exercise in futility.

A wooden ship's hull is built primarily of planking laid over stout beams formed to the shape desired. The planking itself would likely only be a couple of inches thick (though in later ships the hull was sometimes built in layers of planks), but it would generally be very strong wood (often oak). Also keep in mind that it'll be watersoaked and resilient (unless of course it's old and rotten, but that changes all the rules). Blunt weapon blows will generally just bouce off. Even cannon balls would sometimes rebound if they didn't strike squarely. So even a strong man with an axe isn't going to hack through it with a single blow. (If you've ever tried to chop seasoned hardwood, you'll know it's a bit of work).

Another thing to consider, even if you manage to cause damage, is how much damage it's going to take to really affect the ship. Ships were expected to take on water and had provisions for pumping it out. Being built of wood, the vessels were flexible. In rough seas, the planking would often flex, letting water in which would simply be pumped back out. It was a normal circumstance. So chopping a small hole in the side of a ship with your axe is going to be nothing more than a nuisance. It will have virtually no effect in the short term and in the long term, all they need to do is nail a patch over the hole, pump out the water and go on as usual.

A sustained attack by a Kraken would obviously be more effective, but still you have to remember that these ships were built to withstand the fury of an ocean storm. They're tough, the timber frame being a virtual web of beams and crossbracing. An attack from a Kraken might do severe damage to a ship, splitting planks and cracking timbers, but it may very well still be able to limp into a port for repairs. I suppose it'll depend on how tough your kraken is, but a wooden ship would take quite a beating. Having it crush like a soda can in the grip of a tentacle would be stretching the suspension of disbelief unless you want a kraken to be a rare and god-like creature. If there were beings that powerful commonly found in the seas, it is unlikely that seafaring would have gained much popularity and trade in that world would probably be more restricted to land, so large sailing ships would probably not exist in the first place (or they would be built even stronger and you'd be back to a ship that wouldn't fold up easily).

The secret to sinking a ship is to do a truly catastrophic amount of damage in a short enough time that it can't be repaired before it fills with water. A single blow, or even series of blows is unlikely to sink a ship. There's a reason a galleon fitted for war carried upwards of forty cannon.

Just some things to think about as you look over the options for rules.
 

As a short side-note, don't forget that on top of the (wonderful, IMO) rules presented in the Arms and Equipment guide, a ship still gets it's hardness values. Two inch thick planking would have hardness 5, I think. Later!
 


Thanks for the added input guys.....

Madelf....I was just trying to point out the differences in what might happen, mostly in jest. It's my friends module and I don't have a clue what he has in mind, although I hope there isn't a Kraken in mind....My Mystic Theurge would probably Teleport out of that encounter.....If she only had that spell....Damn the luck.....LOL

Mirivor and AuraSeer, I don't have my books handy (getting ready to go try and finish 4th of July on the 5th do to inclement weather), but I thought that the hardness of items was per "x" amount of thickness. I'll have to check that out also.....

JoelMarcus....I'm looking for the ESD for Seas of Blood (I've already downloaded the maps from the Mongoose Publishing website, but I couldn't find the sourcebook itself for sale there), which I'll pass on.....

Thanks again for the great responses, from me as well as from my friend, who I sent all the responses to.....I don't want to give away this great resource....Yet.....
 

Hardness depends only the material. Wood has hardness 5, steel has hardness 10, mithral has hardness 15, regardless of the size of the object.

Thickness or size does change the object's hit points. So a two-inch wood plank has twice as many hit points as a one-inch wood plank, even though the hardness is the same.
 

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